using a used jun oil pump

[gtrjon]

yea i think i am going to go with n1 thanks for all the help guys!!!!!!!

[Dragon Humper]

I agree. If theres is no wear to the drive surface, solid clearance and there is no damage to the pump itself a Jun is a good choice even when it is used

+1

BUT, I only have a stock pump (maybe an N1, don't know for sure) and it's working just fine, I have rev-ed to 9000 on occasion too.

You don't need high volume unless you need it, there has been alot of myths dispelled in the last 5 years or so in motorsport around oiling. The old rule of thumb that you should have 10psi per 1000rpm is now bunk, as long as you have 60psi and your clearances are good you can go as far as your parts will take you. Volume is also a result of clearances, if they are good and you don't have other things gobbling up volume (like 4 turbos in a Veyron) then hi-volume is not needed. What could be of value though is to have ALL the volume go through your oil cooler then by-pass the un-needed oil back to the pan, that way you oil will circulate through the cooler more often.



Jon.

[BenC]

I'd do it. It's still a Jun pump. New used doesn't mean much if it's in good condition. Kinda like some people buying a car that's already modified. It's used.

Do it

I agree. If theres is no wear to the drive surface, solid clearance and there is no damage to the pump itself a Jun is a good choice even when it is used

[gtrjon]

yea 10000 is just in my motor. with supporting fuel and oiling mods. you can have your twin set up and have no lag for time attack or whatever you plan on doing with your gtr but i like to race in a straight line and a big single is easier to make big power for 1/4 yes its laggy but once it spools it hits hard sounds better and the engine bay looks better imo. but thats all just my opinion. to each his own i guess. Allen thanks for the simple break down for newbs like me

[NismoS-tune]

[QUOTE=gtrjon;437558]

Someone (shop owner) convinced me the Eagle rods would suffice under 800hp and be reliable... Soon after I realized that I could care less that they were half the price of the good rods so I tried going to Carrillo rods but it was too late as everything was already balanced. We'll see how they go. The weakest parts of my car are the rods, transmission, OEM fuel tank and driveshafts. Let's hope it stays together eh?



lol my budget for my build is 10000 out the door and i am coming pretty damn close. i am going big single with a bw 91-79 turbo so big power wont be hard to make with some meth a built bottom end and some tomei pon cams. i am just trying to take my time and do it right without sacrafising on things i need such as a oil pump lol.

Power to you if 10k is enough for 650whp (I hope that's just the engine getting the 10k), then again, I guess people can make lots of power without having many supportive mods. My engine alone was much more than that and I'm getting 5-550 but with smaller turbos and response/torque, much like the Mine's car and not like a laggy single turbo supra . The thing is, it's built for durability and reliability.

As for dampers, ATI and Ross are great but I remember seeing the HKS is slightly better than the ATI race (Still made by ATI though I think) as it had more ribs on one of the belts or something?

Most people can't afford HKS is the usual issue. It's around $1000 compared to the cheap $600 ATI ones.

[jdms13rhd]

Allen could you explain to me a little more how the harmonic balancer or damper works? and why it is important? havent seen alot of info on them.

I might not be the best person to explain this. Im not a engine builder or machinist or engineer. Just using my "common sense". :P

Every engine needs to have a zero balance. When you balance an engine they take every rod and weight them exactly the same. Usually taking the lightest one and then they remove the material on the wrist pin and the bottom cap balancing it top to bottom. Then they do the same with the crank on every counter weight and then the same with the flywheel and pistons of course. Those drilled holes in the crank and flywheels are the factory balancing those items. The damper absorbs any other vibrations. If an engine was not balanced or done properly i would suppose you could feel it and your engine wont last long. The higher the rpm and the more power you turn out the more crucial the balancing must be in order to keep everything together.

The crank sits in the block and forward towards the balancer, its roughly 4 inches of un-supported crank. If the engine were off balance in any way the crank could see micro movement and damage the pump and or bearings or more. The aftermarket dampers are just a more precise piece that is engineered to handle more power and higher rpm where as the stock damper is engineered to take roughly 300hp at 8000rpm and most of ours are 15 years old and could be in better condition:P

So, you spend $4500 on a engine build with new pieces, it only makes sense that you spend the extra $500 on a new damper as the balance is what keeps the engine together.

I think I got the concept right anyways.

[gtrjon]

great i hope mine is the same you and the skyline life were kinda my inspiration for the r34 crank lol.

[archaeic_bloke]

did you measure the clearence on your n1 pump and your r34 crank?

for inner diameter of the oil pump gear and outer diameter of the crank drive, they were equal to the hundredth, which means a difference in the thousandths... which means they were almost press-fit together, which means they fit VERY snugly, perfectly together.

as for a harmonic balancer, ATI or ROSS makes good ones, don't bother with anything else... you need one to rev high reliably, like 8k and above,... they are filled with something (im not sure what exactly) and it helps to reduce any "run-out" in the crank, and helps to keep everything rotating smoothly. thats a pretty basic response, someone else might be able to give a better one tho

[gtrjon]

Allen could you explain to me a little more how the harmonic balancer or damper works? and why it is important? havent seen alot of info on them.

[jdms13rhd]

is a crank damper the same thing as a crank collar?

no. The collar is just a machined part on the snout of the crank that drives the oil pump. The damper is a harmonic balancer. ATI or ross would be the most popular of them and should be one of the first things to do when considering a "serious" build imo. Its only an extra $500+ish anyways. And I always balance the flywheel with the rotation assembly. Dont balance the damper's tho. lol. They are perfect out of the box hence, thats what you pay for

[jdms13rhd]

n1 is good.
I have a friend running 800hp in his gtr on a n1 pump and collared crank no problems for several yrs.

I am poor and run N1 pumps and never busted one.

That jun pump could be a good opportunity to get in on a better pump but Id take it to a machinist and get it checked out before considering installing it on ANY engine. In fact, buddy thats selling it should do that to help his sale and he could possibly get a little more that way :S From my experience, even with a N1 pump, there are still modifications you should do to compensate.
Drag car with 700+hp, Id have an upgraded sump on my mind. 9 sec gtr is going to toss the oil back all the way down the 1/4 mile. That should be a priority as well as the drains.

[amnash]

If you buy a genuine N1 pump and have the gears replaced with the reimax gears then re-seal the pump and and use some locktight on the srews then punch the heads to avoid seperation. Add a quality Crank damper and you should be fine. I am running the N1 pump but didnt opt for the reimax gears - instead I had my gears removed and machined to remove all the tiny burrs then re-assembled. So far so good.

We all know there are alot of horror stories regarding the N1 pump but CobrAA hit the nail on the head when he said people are quick to blame the pump. Everyone drives there car differently,if you intend on eventually running 7-900whp or taking it to the track and excercising the rev limiter on a daily basis then maybe a larger pump is what you need for your application. But if thats the case you will also need stronger rods,crank,mains,valve train ect ect. If you intend on running 700whp or less then I feel the N1 (properly set up and with supporting mods) will suit your application just fine.

The Aussies punished these pumps for years on the track and Iv yet to see video footage of a GTR pulling over or quitting the race due to pump failure,HI OCTANE used the the N1 pumps on all their time attack R32 GTR's.

If you do alot of homework on RB26 builds you will also find that Eagle rods fail actually more often then the N1 pumps if you put it into perspective. And look how many of us run eagle rods ?!

All parts have the potential to fail, the trick is trying to perfectly match parts that will fit the criteria for the intended purpose of your build.

is a crank damper the same thing as a crank collar?

[gtrjon]

yes i realize i will need to add the oil restrictor to the head it will be coming with my tomei head gasket and i am planning on having my return line modified as well. i think i am going to go with n1 and see how it goes with the new crank. still gonna check my clearances before i install it. archaeic bloke did you measure the clearence on your n1 pump and your r34 crank?

[gtrjon]

[QUOTE=NismoS-tune;437549]Someone (shop owner) convinced me the Eagle rods would suffice under 800hp and be reliable... Soon after I realized that I could care less that they were half the price of the good rods so I tried going to Carrillo rods but it was too late as everything was already balanced. We'll see how they go. The weakest parts of my car are the rods, transmission, OEM fuel tank and driveshafts. Let's hope it stays together eh?

i am giong to be under 700whp cause i am going to be using my stock tranny so i will be around 650 and hope my tranny holds up.QUOTE]

I wish I could afford to make that kind of power

lol my budget for my build is 10000 out the door and i am coming pretty damn close. i am going big single with a bw 91-79 turbo so big power wont be hard to make with some meth a built bottom end and some tomei pon cams. i am just trying to take my time and do it right without sacrafising on things i need such as a oil pump lol.

[archaeic_bloke]

keep in mind the N1 you can install it and not have to worry, it flows MORE PRESSURE than the oem oil pump, but not more volume.
The JUN on the other hand flows MORE PRESSURE ... and.. MORE VOLUME, so if you move to a JUN you're going to need to do some oil mods as well... you're going to need to:

- install an oil drain from the head to the pan
- drill out the oil returns in the block to allow more oil return
- install a tomei oil restrictor into the block to limit flow to the head
- fit a larger baffeled oil sump and pan

you need to do this because the JUN flows significantly more oil, in fact theres a guy named Toby (aka Kismetcaptain) on the UK boards who installed a JUN oil pump and didnt do those things I mentioned, he took his car out, the oil pump sucked the pan dry and he blew the motor.... you cannot run a larger capacity oil pump with out a large capacity of oil...you need to build your engine to the same spec all over~ remember that saying: "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link"... it matters for engines too!

on the other hand, if you want to keep the stock oil pan, and baffles, and not modify the head and return, then run an N1 oil pump. thats what I did, ran it for one season alrdy, no issues. of course the N1 pump should be brand new, and a late model crank will complete the solution. really, if you were looking for a good pump the N1 will do it.