Running rich and running out of ideas!

[mold]

Hey guys, so, my engine has been rebuilt and run in already. When I got the car it ran fine and passed the testing no problem. Now that it is rebuilt and all back together it is running rich and wont pass. It is running at 12.5:1 AFR at idle and around the same at 2,500 - 3,000 RPM. I can't drive it on the road until I can pass the test so I'm not sure what the AFR is while driving or under boost. When held at 2,500 - 3,000 RPM i get a lot of popping from the
exhaust. Seems like unburnt fuel exploding.

As mods, it has:

Mines chipped ECU
Apex'i intake
Blitz cat back exhaust
stock dump pipes
unknown aftermarket y pipe

Things added since problems started:

Wiseco Pistons
Eagle Rods
New OEM Crank
New OEM Valves
New Timing belt
2860-5 Turbos
Tomei Head Gasket
New Injector Seals
NGK Spark Plugs
Innovate LC-1 Wide band

I have checked timing, coil packs, vacuum leaks, coolant temp sensor, TPS, MAFS, fuel injectors are firing, fuel pressure, fuel pressure regulator, engine compression and the O2 sensors.I have also tried swapping the cat out to a known good one and it only makes it marginally better.

Is there anything I have missed? Plugs are new and not fouled. No codes in the ECU. I am just about out of ideas now. I have yet to test the CAS, ignitor/PTU and knock sensors. Could the knock sensors cause the car to run rich?

Will be buying Injector Dynamics ID1000s and nistune or a vi-pec ECU ASAP but would like to get the car running properly before I start adding new parts.

Thanks for any help and insight.

[NismoS-tune]

Let me get this right. You installed all these parts into a "tuner" car and used an aftermarket ecu. What was the tune on the ECU for?

What injectors are you using? Most likely your issue is that your tuner car has been modified and needs to be tuned.

12.5 isn't rich, I regularly see in the 10s and high 9s. It won't blow up at 12.5....

I'm going to guess you ECU is not setup for all the parts you put in. Knock sensors will not cause you to run rich unless you saw a knock warning/light first I think.

Get your modified tuner car tuned brah. After your new injectors go in, you should be good for 550whp.

[Skym]

Could be ECU tune related.

If o2 sensors are lazy / stuffed (engine running rich could stuff o2 sensors), o2 sensors + ECU can make engine run rich longer. Unplugging o2 sensors can tell you if they are the cause. But sometimes o2 sensors are stopping engine from running too lean, so check with wideband afterwards.

Should be around 14.7:1 at idle on stock engine with stock cams. On boost, should be around 11.4-12.0 (A/F ratio used depends on tuner you use, mods, etc).

Also should degree cams if skimmed head, block (rebuild) -

http://www.camshaftshop.co.nz/index.php/Camshaft-Information/sole-purpose-of-degreeing-your-cam.html

[mold]

Sorry I forgot to add the part of my first post about E-Testing the car. The reason I say it's running too rich is because it wont pass the E-Test. My car was running fine on this ecu with the same injectors before the rebuild. Also, 12.5:1 is rich for idle I believe.

Didn't think of the cams after skimming the head and block. Thanks Skym I will look into that. Has anyone heard of good results while using the analog output of a wide band O2 to simulate the stock narrow band sensor? I was thinking I could use this feature to further test the stock O2s.

[JDMotion]

make sure, when you do e-test, test it as gray market! the number are different there! ill post my results tomorrow

[NismoS-tune]

Sorry I forgot to add the part of my first post about E-Testing the car. The reason I say it's running too rich is because it wont pass the E-Test. My car was running fine on this ecu with the same injectors before the rebuild. Also, 12.5:1 is rich for idle I believe.

Didn't think of the cams after skimming the head and block. Thanks Skym I will look into that. Has anyone heard of good results while using the analog output of a wide band O2 to simulate the stock narrow band sensor? I was thinking I could use this feature to further test the stock O2s.

Ah gotcha, I had a similar issue with my car after rebuild and using same ecu/injectors too. turned out I set my base timing at 20deg in the wrong direction hahaha.

[mold]

I have been having some problems with checking the timing. I have followed the FSM but the timing would jump from 20 to 0 when i reved the engine. then I double checked it and it jumped from 20 to past 30 degrees. I still haven't tested the CAS but I think that is my next step.

It was tested as grey market. I think the CO% limit is 1.5 and mine was around 5! HC was way up as well.

[gtrjon]

12.5 isn't rich, I regularly see in the 10s and high 9s.

power robbing. LEAN IS MEAN

[NismoS-tune]

power robbing. LEAN IS MEAN

From what I'm told, rich doesn't hurt, it cools the charge and if I get bad fuel I'm still safe. I recall reading somewhere that the rich tunes are used when there's a lack of confidence or inexperience but I dunno, that's just the net. I have to trust what the tuner does since I am not better than them. I do get unbelievably horrible gas mileage but I do like the constant fireballs.

Power robbing? I made 302rwhp (not even in 4wd) with -5s at 15psi.

[hcr32nic]

come to ottawa, $300 and garenteed pass

[gtrjon]

running rich is for incompitent tuners. anyone can dump lots of fuel and call it "safe" its finding the fine line where power is optimal that takes years of experience. once again lean is mean. im making 500+AWHP at 18psi on a big single on 92 octane.

[jdmtypes]

I'm in the same boat with running rich at idle I'm seeing mid to high 12's an rpm at 1100 to 1500 rpm, in defense the car has sat for the past few years. But even when it was tuned before, it still ran rich. I was wondering if my AFR sensor was shot so I got a new sensor an it's still the same. I'm going back to the same tuner to re tune the car again so we will see how it all turns out. Running ViPec plug n play setup.

[Xeno-Vibe]

Retard came gears to pass safety or just get it retuned. I can hardly imagine an aftermarket ECU reseting the tune itself, unless maybe you put the terminals on backwards and fried or damaged something.

[mold]

The only thing I can think of is that I opened up the ecu case to see if it would be possible to install nistune. For anyone that might be wondering nistune will not work ina mines chipped ecu. Mines put an epoxy resin over the chip that would be next to impossible to remove without damaging the ecu.

I did some testing with retarding the timing and the AFR stays at a solid 12.5:1. Could this mean the CAS might be bad? Does anyone know how to test the CAS without Consult or an oscilloscope?

Planning on getting an ECU soon but don't want to just cover up a potential problem with tuning.

[MattiasJacobs]

That sounds like you might have solved your problem. Really though, you have a fully built motor and haven't pre-purchased any kind of ecu? I know it's a mines chipped but y'all crazy. I just finished my car (built motor as well) and didn't dare start it without some pre tuning. That's why I dropped it off with Radek to finish up before my motor break in.