new Ontario "anti-street racing" bill...

[our_kid]

hey

I thought some of you might find this interesting. First off let me say that I in no way support street racing and any racing should be kept to the track, but I was talking with someone the yesterday and did some further research about this new "anti-street racing" bill that the Ontario government is trying to pass through or is considerig passing. I am really upset about this bill cause it prohibits any mods that could be used for street racing to be hooked up in the car while traveling on Ontario roads (largely aimed at nitrous obviously, but the wording can include just about everything from tachometers to turbos I guess) and any police officer can pull you over and search your car if they suspect you of having any of these "items" online in the vehicle. So if we're going to the track are we supposed to hook up and install all this stuff when we get there?

Now the part about stiffer penalties for those actually caught in the act of street racing I agree with, but street racing would now count as going at least 25 km/hr over the speed limit with like 2 cars side by side...so like if you try to pass someone on a 2 lane highway and buddy doesn't want you to pass him and speeds up and Mr. po-po catches you, that would be street racing, which means good-bye car, and hello $3-5000 dollar fine (depending on the severity)

There's a petition going around (that has like 13,000 sigs already) about rewording the bill and it makes several valid points about these shops and people who make their livelyhood out of selling and installing performance parts for cars, and a bill like this, as it is now, would virtually shut them down. I agree that this isn't right for the Ontario Government to do this...if they're going to butt f*** us with insurance costs, we should at least have some freedom to modify our cars! Plus, do they really think the police have nothing better to do than inspect stuff like ricer's cars?

I can see Giancarlo's point he's been making lately about the 15 year rule changing (at least in Ontario) only because of the government's gross fear of "street racing", and I'm sure they're not thrilled about cars like the Skylines coming here.

just my 2 cents....
Jon

p.s., while we're bitching about the government, why they hell are they bringing back photoradar this summer?!?!?!

[VERTiG0]

Didn't they try to pass this through a year or two ago, and nothing ever came of it?

[JZ]

I have some serious doubts that the law (if it ever passes) would be enforced on everyone to the letter. Laws rarely are. I have several patients and close friends who're cops and they have a very large range on interpretation. Of course NO2 is already illegal to have in road cars, and that a black and white situation but other things like your example of trying to pass an ass who won't let you ...well, I have doubt heavily that any cop is blind enough to not see whats going on if he happens to be following behind. Most of the time, the cop reads the situation and acts accordingly. He most often reflects the drivers attitude back to the driver. ie. if the driver is an ass, he'll get the max he can throw at him.

Personally I really believe what will kill street racing are the inscos. I don't know if anyone here is aware of this but every insurance company has a clause where they will withdraw coverage at any time for a car thats modified. This includes lowering springs. So, all you kids thinking you're getting away with murder by buying a cheapie grocery getter civic and modding it to run 10's (sarcasm) thinking you got a sports car for the rates of a hatchback have something else coming to you! You might very well be paying for insurance coverage that will not be there when you need it.

[Nismo]

Bill 219, this is old news.

They have been trying to finalize it for the last 3 years but nothing will ever come of it except higher insurance rates and confusion among cops and drivers.

As JZ has already mentioned. NOS is illegal in Ontario, UNLESS you have a permit to carry pressurized gasses. Which means your vehicle must have proper protection and carry those diamond signs that you see on trucks with gasses in them. Also, this does not entitle you to have it hooked up, it only means you can carry it in the trunk.

Most of our friends have already felt the effects of this. Our insurance rates have tripled over the last year simply because we drive modified vehicles. I know what your thinking... "Why did you tell them you drive a modded vehicle???" Here is the kicker... if you have and accident, and they find that the vehicle has been modifed and you have not notified them of this... they have the right to void you insurance on the spot. This would not be a good thing if you just killed someone because of the accident.

All this said, I don't think it will become as bad as Richmond BC, where you see kids getting their cars impounded and crushed because of lowering springs. I mean this problem has been around for a long long time... and there are loopholes in the system, so all you need to do is get educated and make changes accordingly.

For the most part... even if you are driving a fully decked out R32 down the street, at normal speeds, and following the rules, I don't think the cops will pull you over.

My $0.02

[Unlucky Menace]

I could talk a long time about this law, but I really don't have the time so I'll just summerize my views:

From a legal standpoint this "anti-street racing law" could violate our charter rights, specifically freedom of expression. We modify our cars to be different not to just go fast and I sincerely believe with all the "tuner" versions of factory cars coming out now a damn good case could be made.

From an economic perspective this would kill the aftermarket, alot of small garages, the classic car market and a the entire factory "modified" market. This means loss in taxes, jobs and public outcry by these workers. Like it or not, the old bill was phrased in such a way that a cop could ticket anything from a 89 civic hatch with an intake to a "classic" 57 chevy who had a new engine.

From an objective standpoint this law will and won't effect the GTR, it will in the way that we wouldn't be able to be have the "look" of a modified car, but that really means nothing, the very essence of Skyline is racing heritage, hell "RB" stands for Race Breed. I won't effect our cars in that, if you modify the engine and the turbos it's tough for a cop to pick up on that. He can't exactly lift off your valve cover and ask you "are those pistons stock because that looks like a tomei stroker kit to me". Our engines come twin-turbo, any cop that does the research will know that, if you add to that, ie. make them bigger, it could be very easy or very hard to tell. Take the Mine's R34 for example, that things engine bay looks stock as hell, but it's not, save for the stock looking carbon fiber intake. The key to modifying is discreetness, the only thing you really about most modified cars are the rims (if any), its stance and its exhaust.

If a cop thinks he can give you a ticket because a bill says so for having 17-18" bronze rims then he has a surprise coming. You can't make that illegal, it's just not possible.

If you buy a set of coilovers (which I hope everyone is considering) and adjust the car to be lower, but not slammed, again it'd be hard to notice. The car sits low to begin with and more often than not lowering springs these days really only drop your car .5-2" unless your a "ground control soljah". Again you could make it very hard for a cop to tell.

Finally the exhaust, and this argument plays into the rims, springs and pretty much everything else about the Skyline. This 15 yr law will allow us to import a rare, exotic car. You get a ticket, stand in front of a judge explain what the car is, how you got it, how it's legal and that you can't get X part for it because it's discontinued and really theres nothing he can do about it. The right honourable Justice Le Roy probably won't enforce a $150 "noise" ticket because of your exhaust since theres REALLY nothing you can do about it.

I hope I've brought some sober sense to this conversation and you all can rest a little easier now.

Remember, part of the mystique of the Skyline is the amazing horsepower you drive from modifying the engine and turbos, not from making it have red underglow lights, blue fog lights and wings that stand 7 feet in the air. A cop can't exactly check what sort of oil catch can you have, or if your ecu has been tuned. And while he will notice the larger turbos and the intercooler, he's not about to measure the stroke or displacement of the RB on the side of the road, so for me I have no concern, 98% of my money will be going into those things that a cop cannot possibly ticket or will have a hard time making an argument in court that it's not only not stock, but has been modified for street racing.

Best things to do when you get your skyline, 1) don't hang around heat scores in civics. I was stopped a few times last summer in my Lancer, and every time it was because I was stupid enough to be in an area known for racing, despite I had nothing to do with it. So boys, if your in Toronto, stay away from Woodbridge and Winston Churchill.

[Unlucky Menace]

Crap I said I didn't have enough time and I spent 10 mins writing that!

[Nismo]

I agree with some of your comments Unlucky Menace, but don't discredit them yet. They are getting smarter and smarter.

You mentioned...

If you buy a set of coilovers (which I hope everyone is considering) and adjust the car to be lower, but not slammed, again it'd be hard to notice. The car sits low to begin with and more often than not lowering springs these days really only drop your car .5-2" unless your a "ground control soljah". Again you could make it very hard for a cop to tell.

From a police standpoint: I was pulled over about 4 months ago in QC. Got rolled on hard by some rookie coper thinking he could throw the book at me. Much to my surprise he knew what coilovers were, he knew they were meant for off-road use only, and he knows they improve handling. Granted my car is littlerally sitting on the asphault, I have no one to blame, but he did give me a 72hr. warning to jack it back up.

From an instuance standpoint: Coilovers are not supposed to be used on the road. Its says it right on the box. Also by lowering the vehicle you are changing not only handling characteristics (better in the dry, not so much better in the wet) but also you are changing the impact points of the bumpers. This may not make a big difference for regular traffic, but if you rear end a 5 ton cube truck, or an 18 wheeler... you're going under the back wheels.

All this to say what? The insurance company could not see the coilovers, they have never seen the car. The Police could not see coilovers and for all they know it could have been a spring and shock combo... but they asked to see them... they know what they look like, and they are well aware of what they can do.

This one made me chuckle...

Finally the exhaust, and this argument plays into the rims, springs and pretty much everything else about the Skyline. This 15 yr law will allow us to import a rare, exotic car. You get a ticket, stand in front of a judge explain what the car is, how you got it, how it's legal and that you can't get X part for it because it's discontinued and really theres nothing he can do about it. The right honourable Justice Le Roy probably won't enforce a $150 "noise" ticket because of your exhaust since theres REALLY nothing you can do about it.

Although it may be how you got the car (ie: with rims, exhaust and springs present) they still have the power to make you change it EVEN if there is no other parts available.

Case and point: I used to get (on average) one ticket a month for noise polution with my car. The HTA and Transport Canada have rules and regulations on the amount of noise a vehicle can produce. I have articles and how they perform tests if you are interested in them.

Now my exhaust is a one off custom made... my oem exhaust was long gone and I tired to tell them that I could not get another old exhaust because the motor had been changed and it would not fit on the new motor. They answer... stick on more mufflers or more baffles to quiet it down. You have 48 hours or we impound the car.

So weather you like it or not... they have the power here. Not you. I ended up building a custom silencer that can be placed in the muffler portion. It basically brings my 3.5" pipe down to a 1.75" pipe, and the noise is gone.

There is ALWAYS something you can do about it... and although they will not comment on your wheels, when it comes to springs, exhaust, huge ass wings, and whatever else you mentioned. They have the power to make you change it weather you like it or not.

And if you think "Le Roi" is not going to inforce a $150 noice pollution ticket... I have a few friends you can talk to that had to bail their car out of the impound lot because they had the same mentality you do.

I am just going by experience her. I have a healthy portfolio when it comes to tickets, warnings and cop harassment.

[Nismo]

For those that are interested...

The regulations of Transport Canada and the MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT/Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations subsections:

Noise Emissions (Standard 1106)
Interpretation
Exterior Sound Level
Interior Sound Level
Established by

Here's the link http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations...NORP.DHPUME.86

This states that the exhaust for a light duty vehicle must produce less than 80 dbA, tested in accordance with SAE document J1470 (http://www.sae.org/servlets/productD...D=J1470_199806). This test procedure is described in a Transport Canada document here (http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/mvstm_tsd/tm/1106_e.htm).

Yes I know this document doesn't necessarily apply to cars, but it's probably very close. In any case, the measurement is basically done at 15.2m to the side of the car, as it accelerates near redline at full throttle.

Also if you ever take a look at the HTA, you will notice that alot of acts and regs are to be solved at "the police officers discretion". So even though this may or may not apply in a particular case... if he thinks you are too noisy he is right.

[our_kid]

it's actually something like Bill 243-C or something like that, not the 219 bill that I think the Eve's government was trying to push through.

the early points that Unlucky Menace made in his rant are exactly what the petition is stating, that this bill would only really hurt the small garages that work with performance parts and really just push things more underground and create more illegal activity...also the part about freedom of expression.

I don't why they're so concerned about it...I thought I read on the CBC newsworld website, in a report, that like 7 people were killed in street racing (no innocent by-standers) in Ontario last year and this was some sort of epidemic. I mean I'm sure more people are killed in car accidents coming home from work daily in Ontario than that. I say let the 7 stupid asses kill themselves on quite blocked off roads.

[Unlucky Menace]

Personally I believe the Economic and Legal Right arguments are the best:

Fundamental Freedoms

Fundamental freedoms 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
a) freedom of conscience and religion;
b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
d) freedom of association.

Historically Freedom of Expression has been interpreted as:

"It is difficult to imagine a guaranteed right more important to a democratic society than freedom of expression. Indeed a democracy cannot exist without that freedom to express new ideas and to put forward opinions about the functioning of public institutions. The concept of free and uninhibited speech permeates all truly democratic societies and institutions. The vital importance of the concept cannot be over-emphasized. No doubt that was the reason why the framers of the Charter set forth s. 2(b) in absolute terms which distinguishes it, for example, from s. 8 of the Charter which guarantees the qualified right to be secure from unreasonable search. It seems that the rights enshrined in s. 2(b) should therefore only be restricted in the clearest of circumstances."

Everything that I do my car is because I want to express myself. Regardless of what the bills name or number is, they cannot tell me I can't have 18 inch rims and performance tires if they conform to the HTA. Some people express themselves with words, others express themselves with actions or they're clothes. I choose to make my statement through my vehicle. And according to the court you can't stop me from expressing myself only in the clearest of circumstances which, historically, has meant things like hate-crimes and racist comments can be restricted.

You can make my exhaust a certain DB, you can make my car a certain ride height, but you can't take away my intake or exhaust or carbon fiber just because it "could" be used for racing. Any car can be "used" for racing. Heck, most porsches ARE race cars, don't even get me started on Ferraris, Vettes etc. All these cars use race technology, if not actual racing products. Classic cars are rebuilt with aftermarket parts, and I'll be damned if those aftermarket parts aren't better or alot better than the originals in terms of performance. So if Dalton wants to restrict aftermarket-modifications, he and his cabinet ministers can kiss they're classic cars good bye. Finally Mazda, Ford...well pretty much EVERY vehicle manufacturer makes from-the-factory performance variations. You restrict these cars and you watch what happens to the Ford and GM plants in Ontario regardless of what they build.

They want us all to drive Grey, Square Boxes......