Contesting an exhaust ticket - possibly a bad idea?

[nelsonmxmarc]

When i first bought my Skyline, i had absolutely no idea what i was getting myself into. Don't get me wrong, i'm a huge car enthusiast, but the rules and regulations that seemingly apply to Quebec police is a different ball game altogether..

The first day i had my car, not 6 hours later, i was pulled over for;

"A muffler system that is not of the norm"
ie. an "aftermarket" exhaust..

I was not issued an inspection, nor was i told to change the exhaust, quite simply i was given a 148$ ticket and told to "eff" off.

The cops were rude, and being that i explain myself better in English, i was given no leeway. I was basically told, "Get out of Quebec if you can't speak French, or deal with it"

My point is; as i was not issued an inspection, and seeing as my car's exhaust system wasn't "changed" (ill get to this), i'm also missing my charcoal canister, have Goodridge s/s brake lines (which i THINK are dot approved), and a few other doodads that are probably not legal but surpassable - if i contest my ticket, will i be putting myself deeper into the sh*t being issued an inspection on behalf of the judge at my hearing?

Or should i pleed my case, as i know i'll escape the cost of the ticket (6 hours gives me no headtime to change any car parts, and seeing as i had no idea...) and give these douche's who treated me like garbage a run for their money?

As for the exhaust not being 'changed'. I have a photo of my car jacked up with an OEM HONDA Muffler attached to the rear hanger - yes, a 1" tip muffler .. Looks horrid, but i have a picture to justify this being done, as well as my licence plate in the photo for evidence that it is in fact my car..

My court date is feb 16th..

Thanks guys! Any personal anecdotes or anything would be great!

[archaeic_bloke]

give this a read... and look at each individual point and make a solid argument.. then you're good to go.. win!

"Exhaust system.

258. Every motor vehicle must be equipped with an exhaust system that conforms to the standards established by regulation.

1986, c. 91, s. 258.
§9. Exhaust system
91. The exhaust system shall include the following components: manifolds, pipes, muffler, brackets and fasteners.
Those components shall be securely mounted to their anchorages and no leakage of exhaust gases shall be detected through joints, cracks or holes other than those originally provided by the manufacturer of the exhaust system to evacuate condensation.
Any repair on any of the components shall be such as to preserve the original characteristics.
O.C. 1483-98, s. 91.
92. No component of the exhaust system shall run, closer than 50 mm from another element, such as a part made of combustible materials, an electric wire, a fuel or brake line or fuel tank, that is not protected by an appropriate heat shield. In the case of pressurized fuel lines, of the GNC and GPL types, that minimum distance shall be 150 mm.
Furthermore, no flammable material shall leak on a component of the exhaust system.
O.C. 1483-98, s. 92.
93. Where a component of the exhaust system is located near a passenger compartment door, it shall be covered with a guard if persons using the door risk being burned.
O.C. 1483-98, s. 93.
94. No component of the exhaust system shall be replaced, modified or removed so as to cause the system to be noisier than the one originally installed by the manufacturer on the road vehicle.
O.C. 1483-98, s. 94.
95. No component of the exhaust system shall cross the passenger compartment. The outlet of the exhaust pipe shall not be located under the space occupied by the passengers and luggage. The outlet shall be located behind any openable side window and it shall not extend moe than 15 cm horizontally from the road vehicle.
O.C. 1483-98, s. 95.

[cobrAA]

Archaeic, I know you said you have already built your defence. Would you mind sending me the documents to see your proof? I don't mind giving my document but it's in french.

We should, all quebecer on this forum, find something to fight this stupid law that seems only a problem here in Quebec.

Nelson@ you should look at my numerous exhaust question over the past 2-3 month. I have a couple info. By the way, don't worry the judge will not ask for an inspection so your safe with your SS brake line, In fact not a single police officer will give you a ticket for that!!! lol

[DarkCaporaL]

They dont give out inspection notices for exhausts, because the SAAQ doesn't check exhausts during inspections...you'd think WTF right? Well yeah....

This is where the government bends over and takes it up the ***. If you could get a copy of the inspection paper from whomever sold you the car, this would make your life easier. You can just say your car was inspected and certified to meet all the norms (what the paper says), which INCLUDES exhausts norms.

Everything you need to know should be covered in this thread:
http://forums.gtrcanada.com/legalese...ver-44854.html

Check near the end.

[nelsonmxmarc]

Well unfortunately i can't get a hold of those papers, however there must be a copy of it elsewhere that i may dig up before then.. Anyone know where i can get that?

In the mean time, my argument is quite simple. For one, i had not had the car for more than 6 hours, so for me to have installed that exhaust myself or had put a new one on in the time being is simply impossible.

Next, the oem exhaust on the GTST is free flowing, and there are pictures (on your post) as well as images in the manual that state the same..

As well, the exhaust on my car now which turns out to be a Hi-power HKS is LEGAL as rated by JASMA and is acceptable to US State law, even in California where emissions are strict, if not as strict as JASMA. Not to mention, California state law prohibts noise levels above 95 db, thus in turn, my exhaust is also lower than the recommended noise limit here in QC (98 i believe).

My car tested at 95-96, so they can't bag me on noise, simply their only argument is that it's free flowing, but with evidence to back up the car came here with a free flowing exhaust and that this exhaust is JASMA approved (Meets and superceedes SAE/DOT regulations) then they have no absolutely no means to prosecute.

They could also argue that it's not the OEM exhaust. My reply to that is quite simple; HKS offers this exhaust as an OEM replacement. Cat and resonator are still all in place, however the end pipe has a different shape / size. I have the measurements of the elliptical OEM tip, and length wise is about the same diameter of my current tip..


Thanks guys.

[FunnyGas]

the way i see it. you dont have much way around this:
94. No component of the exhaust system shall be replaced, modified or removed so as to cause the system to be noisier than the one originally installed by the manufacturer on the road vehicle.

in BC it is different. our law states that an exhaust system must have a cat, a baffled muffler, and the outlet of a muffler cannot be modified (that reads, you cannot physically modify the outlet of a muffler. you can install what ever aftermarket muffler), as well be under the max noise requirement.
exhaust tickets are grey area because there is usually not much saying what you can and cannot use.. just fuzzy guidelines.

[nelsonmxmarc]

However HKS hi-power exhaust is in accordance to California state law, stating anything over 95 db is illegal.

My exhaust may not be OEM, however they do not know that, nor know what constitutes an OEM RB20det muffler, thus their argument is quite shaded.

I can easily draw the line at, "This car came with a free flowing muffler, here are pictures to prove it. If you say otherwise, i'd be happy to set another date when the proper information has been evaluated."

They can't pin me on false pretence, not to mention pin me for something as obscure as;

"Proprietaire d'un vehicule non muni d'un systeme d'echappement conforme au norme"

Translates to;

"Owner of vehicle does not have an exhaust system which conforms to the norm"

Now tell me.. what do these guys know of the "norm" in terms of Skyline exhaust? If they have no data to prove otherwise, i get off scott free. However unfortunately for them, i have picture evidence of a free flowing RB muffler, as well as the schematics straight from the manual that state that my exhaust meet and conform to the regulatory exhaust from the manufacturer..

[NismoS-tune]

Only in Quebec. Everything is so weird there. I remember learning that my Journeyman Red seal ticket is good ANYWHERE in the world, except for Quebec lol. I heard they passed a law that every vehicle must have winter tires in winter now. If they didn't run around trying to make up so much crazy stuff like chasing exhaust tickets and banning RHD cars, they could create more jobs, pay off some debt and maybe one day kill off the PST. Who knows, maybe they'll accept my ticket lol.

Anyways, have you heard the latest? Search up how much money that province got from the federal government to help with they're crazy laws and ideas!!

good ol Charest... A good reason I live in Alberta is that there is no debt here, oh and no provincial tax

http://www.vigile.net/Quebec-to-Ottawa-Give-us-money
http://www.conferenceboard.ca/topics...budget_EN.aspx

[cobrAA]

Well unfortunately i can't get a hold of those papers, however there must be a copy of it elsewhere that i may dig up before then.. Anyone know where i can get that?

In the mean time, my argument is quite simple. For one, i had not had the car for more than 6 hours, so for me to have installed that exhaust myself or had put a new one on in the time being is simply impossible.

Next, the oem exhaust on the GTST is free flowing, and there are pictures (on your post) as well as images in the manual that state the same..

Wrong! the pictue is from a GTR exhaust, the GTS cat-back is NOT free-flowing, unfortunaly.

As well, the exhaust on my car now which turns out to be a Hi-power HKS is LEGAL as rated by JASMA and is acceptable to US State law, even in California where emissions are strict, if not as strict as JASMA. Not to mention, California state law prohibts noise levels above 95 db, thus in turn, my exhaust is also lower than the recommended noise limit here in QC (98 i believe).

In all the research I did, I never saw QC had a DB limits, where did you see this?

My car tested at 95-96, so they can't bag me on noise, simply their only argument is that it's free flowing, but with evidence to back up the car came here with a free flowing exhaust and that this exhaust is JASMA approved (Meets and superceedes SAE/DOT regulations) then they have no absolutely no means to prosecute.

They could also argue that it's not the OEM exhaust. My reply to that is quite simple; HKS offers this exhaust as an OEM replacement. Cat and resonator are still all in place, however the end pipe has a different shape / size. I have the measurements of the elliptical OEM tip, and length wise is about the same diameter of my current tip..


Thanks guys.

replied

[nelsonmxmarc]

Searching for a report i stumbled on about 3 years ago when i had my straight pipe'd Impala SS... It was approx 95 db's. I'd assume a lot of movements took place across north america after Cali decided to cap a limit as to reduce noise in urban and rural areas.. It would be rather draining if all people ran straight exhausts; there had to be a cut off at some point..

Anyways i'll keep looking.

And regards to the gtst exhaust, is there any proof of it not being free flowing like that of the GTR? I can't imagine they're very different.

Let me know what you find.. From what i remember seeing from a stock GTST at a jdm shop downtown, there are no baffles.