Useful or usless? You decide.

[SxyBeast]

Okay basically I'm an inventor as some few of you may know. I don't EVER EVER do this but today is different. I'm going to share an "idea". I usually stay the hell away from the auto sector because it has all been done a million times before, and I really don't care for innovations that pertain to cars. But today I was very creative within other ideas so I thought of this idea I had for some time. Which BTW I really don't care for, thats why I am making it public.

Here is alittle bit about that ^^^

Legal

In the most basic way I can explain this I will. Basically I am here making this "invention, innovation, idea" "public". So what that means as of this point is: nobody can patent this idea (not even me) in ANY country. If I ever found out anyone STOLE my idea without my consent and tried to obtain patent protection all I have to do is present this page which I will print as evidence that this "idea" was public, not theirs, and/or stolen and the party will loose patent rights and possibly be sued for monopolized profits if any are obtained.

Sorry to babble, here is the idea:

Description:

A ground effects kit which installed at bottom of engine bay with a giant air filter/solid membrane around it. This would provide downforce as ground effects do, increase cooling to entire engine bay, increase available volume of air to turbochargers, and lastly with aid of the giant air filter around and over fan keep engine bay cleaner and dryer.

The fans would obviouslly be electrically powered, via a belt connected to a motor bolted somewhere out of the way. To cool, and flood turbos with air, air would pass through fan up into bay and exit via turbos, hood vents, and/or z-tune like engine bay fender holes. To filter incoming air all air passing through fan would be filtered with high tension high volume air filters/screens. All area around fan can be solid or air filtered surface to protect engine bay.

Here is my very quick draft, if you ned descriptions tell me.




What do you think? Worth a try? Would it work? :?

Thanks for reading.

[Connor]

Is that diagram to scale?

[SxyBeast]

Is that diagram to scale?

HAHAHAHA LOL no way. You were joking right?:-D

[Chris_RB]

Just thinking...but to create downforce at speed, those fans would have to have some massive sucking power because of the speed and the force of the air underneath the car. I'm talking like jet engine sucking force...I'm not sure how a fan could create enough force in that environment...might cool the engine a bit though

[Eber]

wow.. a turbo for your turbo's! hahaha imagine the amount of crud those filters would catch..you would have to change them every bock or two

[CanadianGTR]

Issues:
- Massive drain on engine/battery/alternator
- If the fan stops for whatever reason while the downforce being created is actually NEEDED, the car is going to lose control - like the old skirted F1 cars.
- Your invention would basically become a skid plate
- Clearance issues; would need to have a very flat/streamlined area under the car.

[RyanGTS-T]

First thing I'd do is scrap the idea of a belt opperated fan and go with electric fans. Then there would be a relay to a toggle switch to turn on the fans when you want them. Easy.

Second, I belive there is/should be powersteering lines running in front of and below your turbos (between rad and engine).

Third, you need an artist. I'm no professional artist but I think I can help you out with creating a better/readable diagram of what you want. What I need from you is a picture of your front bumper, and a proper description of what you want to do (cool engine, what do you want to cool?) I am extremly interested in this idea and have alot of additions/ideas to add. Send me a pm, and I'll look into it. I'm heading off to a skyline meet right now so I'll talk tomorrow.

Thank you.

[Wants_a_GTR]

Should prolly CAD something up so people know what you mean. As long as it's a half decent filter that can be easily cleaned and the fan(s) could get the air to flow good. Would work a little better with the Z-style fenders, but they would work better in those cases to blow the air out.

[SxyBeast]

Chris RB:

Maybe an electric motor wasn't the best way to power it:

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_in_cars

Its fan, spinning on a horizontal, longitudinal axis at the back of the car, took its power from the main gearbox. The car avoided the sporting ban by claims that the fan's main purpose was for engine cooling as less than 50% of the airflow was used to create a depression under the car. It raced just once, with Niki Lauda winning at the Swedish Grand Prix. The car's supreme advantage was proven after the track became oily. While other cars had to slow, Lauda was able to accelerate over the oil due to the tremendous downforce, which rose with engine speed.[3] The car was also observed to visibly squat when the engine was revved at a standstill, and could survive a 10,000rpm clutch drop in 1st gear with no wheelspin.[4] Brabham's owner, Bernie Ecclestone, who had recently become president of the Formula One Constructors Association, reached an agreement with other teams to withdraw the car after three races.

So it needs another form of power. Any ideas? BTW this device must remain at the engine bay or it is usless as far as my idea goes. Moving it to the back of the car makes it "normal" ground effects.

Ganadian GTR

Only the fan part would need be flat, all else may conform to whatever it needs to.

Ryan GTS

Please go ahead and help in any way you can. I'm a horrible drawer!

Wants a GTR

I could do some 3d modeling but cars are very confusing to me, I'll see what I can do.

[Connor]

HAHAHAHA LOL no way. You were joking right?:-D

Sorry dude, couldn't resist.

[Wolfattak]

a few issues.

1. As you travel at high speed air traveling across an opening creates a low pressure zone. this draws the high presure air (In the engine bay) out. this could either stall out the fan, break the fan, or just create tons of stress on the fan and fan motor

2. Using a single large fan could create a giro effect which in turn will upset the cars balence and cornering.


I think a better alternative is an open front induction paired with a partialy sealed underbody with an indented underbody vent/scoop thing in which the opening opened from the bottom into the engine bay facing forward. this would create a low pressure zone bellow the engine and would draw air through the engine bay (could be arranged to pull air directly across turbos or specific engine parts) and create downforce as it exits downwards through the specifically designed vents. .... I will try to make a diagram later.

[M-SPEC]

I think your idea is cool, but involves to many parts and energy to be efficient, most race cars rely on a smooth flat surface through out the entire under carriage to reduce drag and create a pressure difference. That being said many race cars use ram air or reverse cowl type systems, witch at speed can cram cool air into the intake, rad's, intercoolers, fuel/oil coolers, brake ducts or the reverse cowl types that pull hot air away from your engine bay and turbo's at speed. Most of the systems are made with just some light weight carbon fibre and ducting and a reverse cowl hood.

[Skym]

From what I understand the F1 car uses a sucking method, similar to a hover craft with skirts to hold the air in, but in reverse.

Basically the fan at the back of car sucks the air out from under the car, which creates a lower pressure zone under the car, with the help of side skirts on the edges of the undertray.

On normal undertrays it's the velocity of air under car, compared to top of car and how it separates behind the car that affects, drag, downforce. Faster the car goes, the more downforce is created.

That's why with air separation, some rear undertray's are angled upwards, towards the top of car and angling the rear spoiler on top of car can change the angle of the air flow when leaving the back of the top of car and the distance behind the car, where the 2 sources of air (on top and under car) meet.

R34 GTR front undertray -

http://www.skylinegtrhome.com/images/0460_5lo.jpg

R34 GTR rear undertray -

http://www.skylinegtrhome.com/images/0460_6lo.jpg

R34 GTR uses NACA duct on the turbo side of bonnet to aid in cooling.

R35 GTR uses 2 NACA ducts on both sides of bonnet.

Here's a Audi R8 undertray -

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/112_0701_2008_audi_r8/photo_17.html

You'll notice they use NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) ducts to aid in cooling.

Another way is using louvers -

http://www.porsche928parts.co.uk/images/undertray_image2.jpg

[SxyBeast]

From what I understand the F1 car uses a sucking method, similar to a hover craft with skirts to hold the air in, but in reverse.

Basically the fan at the back of car sucks the air out from under the car, which creates a lower pressure zone under the car, with the help of side skirts on the edges of the undertray.

On normal undertrays it's the velocity of air under car, compared to top of car and how it separates behind the car that affects, drag, downforce. Faster the car goes, the more downforce is created.

That's why with air separation, some rear undertray's are angled upwards, towards the top of car and angling the rear spoiler on top of car can change the angle of the air flow when leaving the back of the top of car and the distance behind the car, where the 2 sources of air (on top and under car) meet.

R34 GTR front undertray -

http://www.skylinegtrhome.com/images/0460_5lo.jpg

R34 GTR rear undertray -

http://www.skylinegtrhome.com/images/0460_6lo.jpg

R34 GTR uses NACA duct on the turbo side of bonnet to aid in cooling.

R35 GTR uses 2 NACA ducts on both sides of bonnet.

Here's a Audi R8 undertray -

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/exotic/112_0701_2008_audi_r8/photo_17.html

You'll notice they use NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) ducts to aid in cooling.

Another way is using louvers -

http://www.porsche928parts.co.uk/ima...ray_image2.jpg

Yes I do understand all of this. But my idea has a much different concept. To do 4 different things all at one place with simply a fan, and filter/aerodynamic piece around fan. This would also be an extension of all the air already entering the engine bay from the front. To add GREATER cooling, more air to intake than normal, and alittle downforce. None of the methods above can do more than a small amount of cooling, small amound of added turbo air. The fan adds downforce greater than any diffuser while also acting as a diffuser (if it can be powered properly) and also keeps your bay clean, which can be of more use than just good looks!

Ultimately if ways to power this machine can be solved obviously there could be some potential performance gains here.

I have also just thought of a sleezy little idea of directing or funneling some air from fan to brakes for increased cooling.

[Daniel1458]

It's been done already. f50. reseach a bit more you will see.