Installing bolt in roll cage

[DJ]

I'm about to install a 6 point bolt in cage in my gtr and I was wondering would it be best to have the car on jack stands while drilling the holes and mounting the cage or should the car be dropped on the wheels.I know the surface should be as flat/equal as possible ...my driveway is warped.

[hozer]

Doesn't really matter, bolts wont go in crooked. Wouldn't recommend jack stands because you have to really jam that B in there, you'll be applying way to much lateral force to be comfortable using jack stands

Also to save you some heartache, take out your sun-visors (don't fit at all) and dome light in the back (to save you from destroying it).

[DJ]

Thanks buddy, Yea I noticed the dome light got scrapped after I put in the rear half of it.

[Oakville]

Let me know how it goes...I think ill be doing so as well. not down with these holes lol

[frankiman]

make sure you use a large steel plate underneath to bolt the cage to the floor

sort of like this

[archaeic_bloke]

2 things you need to know that no one has mentioned yet.

#1 it is ILLEGAL to drive with out a drivers sunvisor... so make sure you put it back in before some know-it-all cop decides to write you up on it.
#2 realize one thing: that these bolt in roll cages, can end up in one of 3 ways: (A) you'll never have needed it because you don't crash (B) you need it and it saves your life... or (C) pay attention to this one... you crash, and everything is much worse because of the rollcage,

those metal plates that go on the underside are designed to make sure that if you are ever in an accident, the force of the accident will not cause the cage to push or pull through its mounting positions right?... right! I've looked at a couple bolt in cages and understand the design quite well, my qualm is with those underside brackets. I don't believe, for even one second, that at any serious speed, (say 150+) those would hold the cage in place. the sheet metal for the floor pan is just so thin, and the smaller the area for the backing plates, the more likely it is that they would tear through the floor in an accident at high speed.

I've seen my fair share of high velocity accidents through 4 years of service as a firefighter, pretty much everyone survives accidents below 60km/h, its hard to die at that speed unless your old or frail.... between 80 to 120 things start to get rough, cars will roll, engine mounts will shear, axles will break... and above that... well, lets just say one accident in particular where the investigator estimated the speed before impact near 160, resulted in the car looking like it had been passed through a shredder.... these sheet metal cars turn into sheets of paper at high speed, and with cars like ours, capable of 280km/hr, at that speed you're pretty much flipping a coin when it comes to life and death.

All that talk to say this one last thing, and please try to do this... get yourself some larger area plates than the ones provided... 4 inches b 4inches is TOO small, in my opinion. I understand these cages are rated and tested, but (A) if it's used previously or anything other than brand new from the shop, that rating is no longer valid, and (B) this is your life we're talking about man, a bad cage can kill you instead of protect you... even just an extra 2 inches more each way on those plates will make a huge difference.

you can pick up pre-cut metal plates and princess auto or canadian tire, and they're not expensive, at the very least please consider it.

Best of luck DJ, and let us know how it all works out in the end.

[CanadianGTR]

Just to chime in - and totally ignore the original post. A friend of mine builds roll cages for touring cars (and just about anything else) and he uses a perch with a minimum surface area of 20 sq.in. - and normally goes over that. This is the minimum required the by the CASC (and probably ASN)

My main gripe about these bolt in cages is that people use cheap hardware (Canadian Tire < Grade 5 bolts) to bolt them in, and the bend around the dash on most of them is - in my eyes - a massive weak point. I would NEVER recommend someone install one of the "tuner style" bolt in "cages" as a safety item... at that point they are just for rigidity/looks. You get them already painted, you don't know the wall thickness, quality of welds, type of tube, etc etc.

You want something to trust your life with on a track, spend the 4-5k and get a PROPER spec weld-in cage done by a competent welder/cage builder. Or at BARE minimum an Autopower style bolt-in with at LEAST Grade 5 hardware. I would try to avoid the tuner "cages" at all costs.

Don't cheap out on anything that could potentially be the difference between a limp for a week or a wheelchair for life.

Another caveat I should add is that I HIGHLY advise against putting anything more than a roll-bar with rear bracing in a car driven on the street - if you have passengers in the back, I would recommend you don't run anything at all. Without a helmet and/or proper padding on the tubing, in an accident the roll cage is likely to do more harm than good since you now have metal tubes to rattle your head off of that your OEM driver restraints were not designed to keep you away from. Just a thought.

6.5.1 Mounting plates shall be no thinner than 1/8in and no thicker than 3/16in with no single edge
longer than 6in and with back-up plates of equal size and thickness on the opposite side of the
panel with the plates through-bolted together using a minimum of three bolts per mounting plate.
The minimum acceptable bolts shall be SAE Grade 5 of 3/8in diameter. Mounting plates may be
welded to the car. Wherever possible the mounting plate should be shaped to and welded to a
vertical portion of the car. Mounting plates shall not penetrate the firewall at any point. When the
roll cage is attached to the floor, no contact plate on the Car shall measure less than 20 sq. in on
any given plane.

Now for the original post, the car would be fine on it's wheels. And unless you've got problems opening the doors while its on jack stands, it will be fine on them too (though I agree that if you're going to be forceful with the car while it's up on stands, it may be smart to have it on it's wheels)

[A18]

This is kind of off topic but are cages, bolt in or full weld in, legal for street cars? If you got pulled over with a cage could you be ticketed?

To the OP, on wheels shoulds be fine.

[DJ]

Thanks guys for the good Information.I was going to get some thick gauge 5x5 plates and the hardware is all grade 10.9 .The cage is custom build with 2" chromoly piping and I believe its 2mm thick.tye car will be a weekend street/track car i mainly got it for rigidity. Ill try to get some pics when its all in,the only thing im unsure of is the bars that go around the dash,the builder designed it in a way i have never seen,not sure if its a good way.

[CanadianGTR]

Don't know if you're planning on racing it in any CASC events... but if you are here are the minimum requirements:

3.2 Dimensions
Unless otherwise specified herein, the minimum size of tubing to be used shall be as follows (all dimensions
are in inches):
CAR WEIGHT MILD STEEL ALLOY STEEL
Up to 1500 lbs. 1.375x.095 1.375x.080
1500-2500 lbs. 1.500x.095 1.375x.095
Over 2500 lbs. 1.500x.120 1.500x.095 or 1.750x.095

ERW tubing may be used in the following sizes only:
CAR WEIGHT ERW TUBING
Up to 2500 lbs. 1.500x.120
over 2500lbs. 1.750x.120

[starboy869]

If you cheap on safety equipment I wonder what else you cheap out on?

[DJ]

No just for fun,but thank you for the specs its good to know.

[DJ]

If you cheap on safety equipment I wonder what else you cheap out on?

To who is that statement directed to? If its me then i believe you dont know what you re talking about.

[Dragon Humper]

JDM cages will never pass any inspection of any racing body in North America (drifting IDK). When I watch those clips on Utube of guys doing some crazyass sh1t in Japan at speeds up to 300km/h with those chinsy little cages I cringe (the 5 point harnesses bolted to the floor make me cringe even more). The really hard core guys that compete in the 1min and under at Tsukuba have 10 to 16 point weld-in cages.

In BC cages are fine, if you want to know about your province just go to a street legal race at a local drag strip and ask around, a guy with a $100,000 9 sec. car that is plated I'm sure will know the answer. Most of the time they don't care......LOL.

Any decent cage builder worth his salt could bang out an S&W prefab 6point weld in kit (about $500) for about $1000 (so $1500 all in, DOM....Cromolly adds another $1000 because it must be TIG welded which adds much more time). A 10point with a halo bar and the front downlegs bent around the dash with an X brace to the main hoop is more than strong enough. Added to the S&W kit will add another $1000 in material and time (mostly time).




Jon.

[CanadianGTR]

Chromoly also needs to be (or at least SHOULD BE) normalized.
The cages in the touring cars are around $5,000. The last one he did was for a mini and it had to be the tightest fitting cage I've ever seen in my life. DOM tube, Fully TIG welded all round (I've seen cages where the hard to reach welds - anything up under the roof - aren't done), tight fitting, dimpled gusset boxes, NASCAR door bars. You get what you pay for.

DJ, post up some pics when it's done! Always like seeing roll cages.