Good Fuel

[Dragon Humper]

I am proof beyond a doubt that running really good fuel will save you every time.

T88h 34D pushing 1.4bar and 32 deg. of ignition timing......and I lost a fuel pump (have twins in the tank). The funny thing is I didn't figure that out for a couple of days because I was thinking it was an ignition issue (stumbling above 1 bar of boost). I ran it lean at least 10 times trying to figure out if my spark was getting snuffed out.

Did I melt a piston? Nope. Did I pop the head gasket? Nope. Ran the compression and was 155 across the board (which also tells me that the pistons are of the lower comp. forged variety).


I didn't even hear detination or see a spike in my Knock Counts. Tolulene for the MF win.




Jon.

[gtrjon]

how much tolulene do you run? any adverse affects?

[hozer]

Eats your gas lines, breaks your fuel pumps, can wear out your upper cylinder and doesn't vaporize worth garbage at low temps. Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better off running an octane booster.

All EXTREMELY dependant on what % you mix it at. It is in octane booster but at low percentage and with lubricants to offset it.

Source: Friend with a Chemistry PhD (fuel line part)

Out of curiosity Dragon what % do you blend it at?

[evilgtr]

http://www.elektro.com/%7Eaudi/audi/toluene.html

that will clarify what toluene is capable. Not only is it safe but its very powerful and a great replacement for race gas. I have yet to run any in my car since Im running meth but will be experimenting with it in my sled as soon as it snow.
Jon what kind of mixture do you use ?

heres a good link for finding out what octane you need

http://www.bazellracefuels.com/Calcs/OCl.htm

[Dragon Humper]

I run about 50% tolulene overall (in case you didn't know, all fuel has around 25% light aromatics in it already, some are more nasty then tolulene). Everytime I fill up, I dump in about 1 gallon if it's cool out or 2 gallons if it is above 25deg out. If it's above 30 I'll throw in about 2 litres of Methanol too (had only a little bit of Methanol in it this time left over from my Langley trip).

Every Octane booster on the market is a slight variation of the 75% Tolulene, 23% clear Karosene and some ATF for lubricant (which I also do, about 100ml in every tank). So you are wasting a HUGE amount of money buying a $14 tiny-ass little bottle of booster when you can get a gallon of tolulene at Home Depot for $16 (I get the 5 gallon pail for $56).

Any fuel related components can handle it up to 50%, once you get closer to 100% natural rubber will start to swell. Formula 1 cars back in the 70's were running 2.4litre V8s with twins (some with quads) pushing 80psi of boost for qualifying then 60psi for the race.....on 98% tolulene. It's very capable.(edit: HA! I just read that article in the link, I didn't think the engines were that small, 1.5 litres...yikes)

Did my pump kak because of this, maybe. Who knows what fuel they were running the car on in Japan (most likely HKS Drag Fuel), how old the pumps are or how long it was in storage with race fuel in the tank. Frankly, I am happy that they lasted this long....3 summers. I already have a complete fuel system ready to go for next year because I knew I was on borrowed time with the pumps that were in the tank.


Jon.

[frankiman]

where do you buy Toluene? under what product name?

[Super_Dude]

The only problem would I would have is consistency. I've considered going this route (more methanol than toeluene though) but realized the hassle of getting it perfect every time. Much less hassle to just buy race gas.

One thing to consider dragon, How do you know it was your mixing of fuel that saved your engine? Could be those the newly discovered forged pistons, Could be the colder weather. There are a million factors that make up how a car performs and runs. To have a problem like this ,which has killed engines in the past, and simply claim your toulene saved it is a little short sighted. Maybe the previous owner ran a lot of z-max and that saved the day, who knows.

[Dragon Humper]

Well for one thing, my EGTs never budged a bit and my Knock Counts never went above 45. You would think that a major leanout to to point that the engine was misfiring like the spark was getting snuffed would make the EGTs at least pop up to 800deg. C for a little bit.....never went above 740 deg. (stayed mainly at 640 to 700 deg.).

This is by far the cheapest and most flexible way to go. You can find it at any paint store sold as a thinner. Unless you are going to run race gas all the time you will be mixing your own brew just like me. Tolulene is about 1/2 the cost of the new leadless C16. A 5 gallon pail of tolulene is about $60, HKS Drag Fuel is about $140 and C16 is in the $100 range.

If you want to be consistant just measure properly. If you are going to use methanol then getting it perfect is pointless, mix up some M60 and have fun (60% meth and 40% gas). M60 is about the equivilent to E85 and would be the most forgiving fuel you will ever run. It's almost like Nitro Methane, the more you hose at it the more power you will make, it's very hard to be too rich. Even if you are lean and are maxed out on your injectors that's OK, you can still run it hard and be safe. I am most likely going this route next year if I can find some 1600cc squirters for cheap(currently 1000cc).

Believe it, the fuel saved me. I have read of engines with forged pistons before that only leaned out a couple of times and burned to the ground, I hammered on the poor thing for 3 days chasing an ignition gremlin (EGTs were too cool to point to a leanout) and she is still kickin........Z-max.....bahahaha.



Jon.

[M13]

Toluene is good ****, they'll eat fuel line if you run high percentage, but not the level you are running Jon.


LOL@ Octane Booster comment, since most of octane booster is Toluene @ 2000% mark up LOL.

Toluene:

60bux = 5 Gallons.

Octane "Booster"

8bux = chicken piss amount

[Terrh]

Well for one thing, my EGTs never budged a bit and my Knock Counts never went above 45. You would think that a major leanout to to point that the engine was misfiring like the spark was getting snuffed would make the EGTs at least pop up to 800deg. C for a little bit.....never went above 740 deg. (stayed mainly at 640 to 700 deg.).

This is by far the cheapest and most flexible way to go. You can find it at any paint store sold as a thinner. Unless you are going to run race gas all the time you will be mixing your own brew just like me. Tolulene is about 1/2 the cost of the new leadless C16. A 5 gallon pail of tolulene is about $60, HKS Drag Fuel is about $140 and C16 is in the $100 range.

If you want to be consistant just measure properly. If you are going to use methanol then getting it perfect is pointless, mix up some M60 and have fun (60% meth and 40% gas). M60 is about the equivilent to E85 and would be the most forgiving fuel you will ever run. It's almost like Nitro Methane, the more you hose at it the more power you will make, it's very hard to be too rich. Even if you are lean and are maxed out on your injectors that's OK, you can still run it hard and be safe. I am most likely going this route next year if I can find some 1600cc squirters for cheap(currently 1000cc).

Believe it, the fuel saved me. I have read of engines with forged pistons before that only leaned out a couple of times and burned to the ground, I hammered on the poor thing for 3 days chasing an ignition gremlin (EGTs were too cool to point to a leanout) and she is still kickin........Z-max.....bahahaha.



Jon.

Fuel pressure is the first thing you should check when your car starts not running right. It's the issue at least half the time. I had a vac line pop off my pressure regulator and didn't figure it out for a few days because it ran fine except above 1 bar. I keep a pressure gauge hooked up under the hood all the time now, and I'll slip it under a windshield wiper where I can see it if I think something is up or if I'm tuning.

I used to run 50/50 Toluene/shell 91 in my FC. NO issues ever except for it being hard to start when cold, and it was like that a little bit on straight pump gas anyways. I think i had a weak leading coil. Everyone knows with rotaries if you detonate them they blow up. Well, I had never tuned an engine before, had no idea what to run for ignition or fuel maps, or how much boost I could get away with, and never blew it up. Went 11.6 @ 120mph on entirely home built/rigged stuff. I think that if you have enough octane it doesn't knock no matter how lean it gets. It'll still melt stuff and other nasty things can happen, but knock doesn't.

I haven't tried but I will leave some over the winter and see - I've been told that if you leave it mixed for a long time it'll separate.

I've had good luck on my GTR with meth injection but I might start cutting my fuel with toluene too. $56 for 5 gals is the same price as what I can get race gas for in the states, but it makes twice as much fuel.

[Dragon Humper]

Fuel pressure is the first thing you should check when your car starts not running right. It's the issue at least half the time. I had a vac line pop off my pressure regulator and didn't figure it out for a few days because it ran fine except above 1 bar. I keep a pressure gauge hooked up under the hood all the time now, and I'll slip it under a windshield wiper where I can see it if I think something is up or if I'm tuning.

You have no idea how much of an idiot I felt like once I figured it out. That should have been one of the first things I should have checked (especially because I knew there were twin pumps in the tank), all I did was pull the relay out of each pump feed. Pulled the first, still running, replaced it and pulled the other one.....blah....*smackes head*. Swapped relays, same result = dead pump, not a buggared relay.

The fuel saved me from myself and a serious case of head in bum.


*Edit*

On a side note, a buddy of mine ran a 408cid stroker 351w in a '90 Mustang that had 12 to 1 comp. and a turbo kit that he fabbed up. He was going to run a Meth injection kit but found that even with 18lbs of un-intercooled boost and 25 deg. of ignition timing on that motor he still didn't need it with C16 running the show. Made 614hp at the wheel on a Mustang dyno.....fun ride.


Jon.

[Black BNR32]

How much is E85 or M60?

[Black BNR32]

The only problem would I would have is consistency.

On a similar note, wouldn't you still be subjecting yourself to the risks of 'bad gas' by using a home brew mix?

Wouldn't you still have to leave some power on the table to guard against it?