Journal or dual ball bearing turbo?

[cschepp]

So I am replacing my turbo setup and am looking for the best options. I watched a couple videos and it looks like the dual ball bearing would spool really easy. Can someone shed some light on what they with to with and provide some explaination. If for whatever reason it makes a difference I want to make 500rwhp and this is the last component to my build

[Black BNR32]

google will be your best resource on this topic

[Snow]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Dual+Ball+Bearing+Turbo+Advantages

[BrianV8]

depends on the technology of the turbo. I can't say one is WAY better than the other but there are many pros and cons to both

Some facts about ball bearing turbo:
- very little bearing resistance = fast spool
- high priced
- not serviceable, turbo goes bad you throw it away and buy a new center section from garrett

Some facts about journal bearing turbos:
- slightly slower spool time
- more affordable
- can be rebuilt by any turbo shop for a reasonable price.


As far as spool rates go, ball bearing as been proven in the past to be one of the best technologies. Now i quote "in the past" because ball bearing is old technology. There have been many technological advances in journal bearing turbo technology that have improved spool time to be equal to the garrett ball bearings. The key has been in new turbine designs that increase flow and response in a smaller package. So you still get the same spool time and a serviceable turbo at the fraction of the cost.

When i picked my turbo for my car with same power goals in mind i went new generation journal bearing turbo. Hopefully last turbo i ever have to buy for that car.

[DreadedFist]

Trust stated that journal bearing turbos are more responsive than ballbearing in some applications. This might be because Trust sells ancient tech journal bearing turbos for astronomical prices. HKS states that ball bearing turbos are always superior. HKS sells ball bearing turbos.

What I'm saying is that everyone is wrong and I am also wrong.

[Dakota_gsx]

500rwhp? Garrett 707160-5. Buy two of them.

[spoolinturbo]

Smaller displacement motors like 4/6 cyls need transient response between shifts. We dont have a V8 with large displacement to be able to spool a turbo back up quickly. The ball bearing units help with that A LOT. Even bottom end gains are netted where trq can come in faster because of less friction in the chra. Power/power they will make similar but its the area under the curve where the ball bearing units shine.

The Comp turbos are rebuildable and pretty cheap also from the guys I got mine from. I wont post here because I dont want to violate any forum rules. Thats why I went with one of theirs and there were lots of pte unit failures reported online which I did not want to have to deal with.

[cschepp]

Thank you spoolinturbo!

The entire reason I have made this thread is because I am about to gather all the accessories for the turbo kit to finish my car. Would you want to pay 4000$ for something your not satisfied with? I was asking for an opinion not for what they are. Now seeing the options (pros and cons) of the turboes I want to head toward a journal turbo just for the simple fact that turboes low and it would suck not to be able to rebuild it.

[louis110]

In addition to what Brian said, the biggest thing to consider between the two turbos is HEAT. Ball bearing turbos spool faster, but the heat it creates is much higher than a journal bearing turbo. Depending on the technology in the turbo, newer journal bearing turbos should have smaller frictional losses than in older generations.

[Supraclean]

In addition to what Brian said, the biggest thing to consider between the two turbos is HEAT. Ball bearing turbos spool faster, but the heat it creates is much higher than a journal bearing turbo. Depending on the technology in the turbo, newer journal bearing turbos should have smaller frictional losses than in older generations.

Good Call Louis, just another reason why a guy should get a good turbo blanket like DEI or housings coated.
Also fit an aftermarket Oil Cooler with thermostat to help combat.

I noticed once I fitted my Garret GT2871r on my 20 that even with turbo blanket/protected Oil lines that my Oil temps were higher. Obvously other factors could have come into play like/tune more Hp and an unwrapped/coated manifold as I was and still am worried that my manifold wont hold up.

[spoolinturbo]

In addition to what Brian said, the biggest thing to consider between the two turbos is HEAT. Ball bearing turbos spool faster, but the heat it creates is much higher than a journal bearing turbo. Depending on the technology in the turbo, newer journal bearing turbos should have smaller frictional losses than in older generations.

Not true. They still use the same old thrust bearing in the back. Nothing in the journal bearing chra has changed to make it "spool" faster.

My bb unit uses oil only for cooling no coolant. Its an option but not needed if you have a turbo timer.

You just really have to consider you cashflow in the end. I know the price of a bb unit like I have was minimal vs a journal so I opted for the bb unit.

[BrianV8]

Not true. They still use the same old thrust bearing in the back. Nothing in the journal bearing chra has changed to make it "spool" faster.

My bb unit uses oil only for cooling no coolant. Its an option but not needed if you have a turbo timer. If heat was such a difference and made such an impact why would bb units require less oil than non bb?

Thats interesting because most bb units are water cooled also because they cant take the same heat levels a journal can. And yes your right bearing design is not the reason for improved spool. Bearings are all the same, the improvement is in the wheel designs

[spoolinturbo]

Thats interesting because most bb units are water cooled also because they cant take the same heat levels a journal can. And yes your right bearing design is not the reason for improved spool. Bearings are all the same, the improvement is in the wheel designs

Its all in the bb chra design. Both Comp and Pte units can be bb and oil only. PTE calls it "air cooled" or something like that.
Look at the world of turbos now. Comp has an oiless turbo, who would have thunk it.

[cschepp]

See out of an article read as well they simply said the bb will easily boost easier and provide better response but of nots repairable then I'm not sure if I want to get into that. What I should be looking at is:

Journal bearing turbo+rebuild=
2 new bb turboes =

If by chance I find that the bb is roughly around the same cost in the long run the. I might opt for the better response. My thing is I am looking for a reliable 500rwhp. I want to be able to lay into it and not worry it will break if I push it. So basically my question is which is going to be my best bang for my buck based on your personal experiences. I know spoolin turbo is running a bb which is making decent power and hasn't had any problems as of yet and was a little more inexpensive. On the other hand Brian I'm sure you have been running your turbo for a season or two right? And you haven't mentioned any probable s. anyways any feedback is appreciated.

The whole reason I put this up is because I am working with a supplier to provide an optimal kit for me that will do wonders as far as appearance and power goes. I would like to know based off opinion not off a piece a paper.

[BrianV8]

See out of an article read as well they simply said the bb will easily boost easier and provide better response but of nots repairable then I'm not sure if I want to get into that. What I should be looking at is:

Journal bearing turbo+rebuild=
2 new bb turboes =

If by chance I find that the bb is roughly around the same cost in the long run the. I might opt for the better response. My thing is I am looking for a reliable 500rwhp. I want to be able to lay into it and not worry it will break if I push it. So basically my question is which is going to be my best bang for my buck based on your personal experiences. I know spoolin turbo is running a bb which is making decent power and hasn't had any problems as of yet and was a little more inexpensive. On the other hand Brian I'm sure you have been running your turbo for a season or two right? And you haven't mentioned any probable s. anyways any feedback is appreciated.

The whole reason I put this up is because I am working with a supplier to provide an optimal kit for me that will do wonders as far as appearance and power goes. I would like to know based off opinion not off a piece a paper.

I'll send you a pm can't give away all my 100's of hours of research away that easy hehe