Got pulled over today..

[Murchie]

But the officer deeming the noise to be unnecessary makes it illegal doesn't it?

I really hate the wording of the HTA with muffler laws and am unsure how I would even go about fighting a ticket if I got one for it. Pointing out that other cars are louder, that the noise is necessary etc is extremely difficult to prove. How far are you expected to go to prove your innocence? What defines necessary. It's not really "necessary" to have a 600hp street car, but then again, it's not really necessary to drive at all. IDK I'm not a lawyer it's just my ramblings on the subject.

The officer basically used his own opinion to judge whether my exhaust was loud. He didn't even use any instrument to come to that conclusion. I'm also having a difficult time finding a shop/mechanic to measure the decibels my exhaust puts out.

Since nobody replied to you I'll reply. Hope you get to see it it's a few pages old.

With the way insurance works in ontario, if you had got 5 of these and didn't fight them you'd probably be paying a grand a month for insurance. So at that point it would be really, really worth it.

But for just one ticket, it's hardly worth it, unless you've had some other convictions. Financially.

For many people it's the principle of the matter. If I don't believe I committed an offense I'm not going to lie and say I admit guilt when I don't believe I'm in the wrong.

There is also the opinion that traffic policing is BS and a waste of time and is just a "motorist tax". I feel that way to some degree and will gladly fight tickets to slow the system down, especially if what I was doing at the time wasn't dangerous or was something that in my opinion shouldn't be illegal. The time these officers spend arguing over how loud someones exhaust is could be better spent saving peoples lives or property. I don't mind the police pulling someone over for driving dangerously or obviously horribly unsafe vehicles, drunks etc but running a 10 man speed trap on the 401 pulling over people for going 120 in a 100 is ridiculous.

Exactly the reason why i'm actually going to take this to trial and not just court. Why plead guilty or pay for a ticket, which to me is unnecessary. I just think they were giving my a tough time because i didn't comply with them yelling at me to pull over

[knate]

If everybody just rolls over and pays the ticket everytime one is handed out, it just gives the police more power.

[hozer]

Since nobody replied to you I'll reply. Hope you get to see it it's a few pages old.

With the way insurance works in ontario, if you had got 5 of these and didn't fight them you'd probably be paying a grand a month for insurance. So at that point it would be really, really worth it.

But for just one ticket, it's hardly worth it, unless you've had some other convictions. Financially.

For many people it's the principle of the matter. If I don't believe I committed an offense I'm not going to lie and say I admit guilt when I don't believe I'm in the wrong.

There is also the opinion that traffic policing is BS and a waste of time and is just a "motorist tax". I feel that way to some degree and will gladly fight tickets to slow the system down, especially if what I was doing at the time wasn't dangerous or was something that in my opinion shouldn't be illegal. The time these officers spend arguing over how loud someones exhaust is could be better spent saving peoples lives or property. I don't mind the police pulling someone over for driving dangerously or obviously horribly unsafe vehicles, drunks etc but running a 10 man speed trap on the 401 pulling over people for going 120 in a 100 is ridiculous.

If everybody just rolls over and pays the ticket everytime one is handed out, it just gives the police more power.

On the contrary,

As a young child, you bug and make fun of the kids/people that you get a rise out of, as the reaction stops, so does your bugging them; this complex never goes away. If everyone didn't fight these tooth and nail they wouldn't give them out in my opinion. As a cop if I can see you've fought every ticket you've ever gotten including loud exhausts and other various stupid tickets and waste my time in court, you can be damn sure I'm gonna give you another lol. At least greatly inconvenience you if you don't have to pay it. That officer gets paid to be in court, you don't.

And a 10 man speedtrap on the 401 for going 120 in a 100 seems entirely legitimate. Your going 20 over a speed limit you're well aware of...? Got a great solution to not having to fight this ticket... Don't speed. I get its a waste of man power, police resources and all that but it is an entirely avoidable ticket (Not trying to sound like a ****).

Now don't get me wrong I understand fighting a ticket that is going to affect insurance or licensing. In Alberta only unsafe act (traffic violations) tickets dink your insurance. But the principle that I "wasn't speeding or my exhaust isn't to loud". Not gonna lose any sleep over saying I'm guilty even if I'm not, I was speeding not murdering people...

I think those of you that fight tickets, request badge numbers, file complaints "to slow the system" down will find yourselves being ticketed less as you become less of a pain in the ass. If you make my 50k a year job even .00000002% more difficult than it needs to be, well I've got a treat for you.

I get that it's your right, it's my right to complain at a store if they screw me. But the second you go to complain, fight it or whatever you may do (any other ex-retailers can confirm this) I will just laugh at your hardship and do my best to make it worse. This is a principle of life I feel. Make my life difficult at my job and I will do my best to make it one of the worst experiences you have during the day. This applies 10-fold with law enforcement.

I really don't mean to sound like a **** but all of this 'exercise the right' is why our generation/car culture gets these tickets in the first place. I've been pulled over dozens of times and have 3 tickets in my life. My friends that argue and fight in court or file complaints have about triple that. Coincidence? I think not. Save the hassle for when its really worth it or you'll be sorry in my opinion.

Not trying to start an argument, just genuinely curious as to the opinions and tickets counts of those of us on here.

[cdnleaf]

I love this forum (sincerely) and here's my 2 cents. If you're going to court and haven't talked to a lawyer - then please do so. Undoubtedly the first thing he/she is going to say is STFU, like now (particularily on an open source Internet forum). The interesting part is that the crown may decide to replace or add to the original ticket, (based on the officers notes/discussion) a Failing To Stop charge - 7 points / $1k-$10k fine etc. In going to court, everything evidentry to the original stop/offence will be made available (including all audio/video,) taken from the van. As you've already mentioned failing to comply above; the 'readily identifiable' aspect of Failing To Stop offense is kind of moot. And, you pretty much assisted them pre-trial with establishing via your complaint/response that they did nothing wrong. Anyways, good luck with the process / it's probably in your interest to minimize further discussion until this is resolved.

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic11.html

[Terrh]

I will just laugh at your hardship and do my best to make it worse. This is a principle of life I feel.

So basically what you're saying is that when you see people doing legal things and attempting to stay within the law, it makes you want to go on a powertrip, and go out of your way to screw them over just to show them that fighting tickets is futile?

Your type is exactly the "problem cop" that people refer to. If more effort was spent chasing real criminals and less time spent making people's lives miserable who are trying to prove their innocence maybe people wouldn't have to fight every ticket. It's too bad that this will probably be read with a closed mind but if you can't see a problem with your line of thinking that's really unfortunate.

[danwit]

So basically what you're saying is that when you see people doing legal things and attempting to stay within the law, it makes you want to go on a powertrip, and go out of your way to screw them over just to show them that fighting tickets is futile?

Your type is exactly the "problem cop" that people refer to. If more effort was spent chasing real criminals and less time spent making people's lives miserable who are trying to prove their innocence maybe people wouldn't have to fight every ticket. It's too bad that this will probably be read with a closed mind but if you can't see a problem with your line of thinking that's really unfortunate.

When i read his post i got so angry if i responded i would have come off as a bigger piece of sh!t than him. Its dickwad cops like him that give decent cops a bad name and perpetuate a bad relationship between the general public. I have no criminal record and have never been charged for a crime but i have had countless bad experiences with police that it has tainted my opinion of them. They're only around when you dont need them.

[Murchie]

On the contrary,

As a young child, you bug and make fun of the kids/people that you get a rise out of, as the reaction stops, so does your bugging them; this complex never goes away. If everyone didn't fight these tooth and nail they wouldn't give them out in my opinion. As a cop if I can see you've fought every ticket you've ever gotten including loud exhausts and other various stupid tickets and waste my time in court, you can be damn sure I'm gonna give you another lol. At least greatly inconvenience you if you don't have to pay it. That officer gets paid to be in court, you don't.

And a 10 man speedtrap on the 401 for going 120 in a 100 seems entirely legitimate. Your going 20 over a speed limit you're well aware of...? Got a great solution to not having to fight this ticket... Don't speed. I get its a waste of man power, police resources and all that but it is an entirely avoidable ticket (Not trying to sound like a ****).

Now don't get me wrong I understand fighting a ticket that is going to affect insurance or licensing. In Alberta only unsafe act (traffic violations) tickets dink your insurance. But the principle that I "wasn't speeding or my exhaust isn't to loud". Not gonna lose any sleep over saying I'm guilty even if I'm not, I was speeding not murdering people...

I think those of you that fight tickets, request badge numbers, file complaints "to slow the system" down will find yourselves being ticketed less as you become less of a pain in the ass. If you make my 50k a year job even .00000002% more difficult than it needs to be, well I've got a treat for you.

I get that it's your right, it's my right to complain at a store if they screw me. But the second you go to complain, fight it or whatever you may do (any other ex-retailers can confirm this) I will just laugh at your hardship and do my best to make it worse. This is a principle of life I feel. Make my life difficult at my job and I will do my best to make it one of the worst experiences you have during the day. This applies 10-fold with law enforcement.

I really don't mean to sound like a **** but all of this 'exercise the right' is why our generation/car culture gets these tickets in the first place. I've been pulled over dozens of times and have 3 tickets in my life. My friends that argue and fight in court or file complaints have about triple that. Coincidence? I think not. Save the hassle for when its really worth it or you'll be sorry in my opinion.

Not trying to start an argument, just genuinely curious as to the opinions and tickets counts of those of us on here.

I'm not even going to attempt to reply to your comment my friend.We all have to respect each others opinion, even when they completely ridiculous

I love this forum (sincerely) and here's my 2 cents. If you're going to court and haven't talked to a lawyer - then please do so. Undoubtedly the first thing he/she is going to say is STFU, like now (particularily on an open source Internet forum). The interesting part is that the crown may decide to replace or add to the original ticket, (based on the officers notes/discussion) a Failing To Stop charge - 7 points / $1k-$10k fine etc. In going to court, everything evidentry to the original stop/offence will be made available (including all audio/video,) taken from the van. As you've already mentioned failing to comply above; the 'readily identifiable' aspect of Failing To Stop offense is kind of moot. And, you pretty much assisted them pre-trial with establishing via your complaint/response that they did nothing wrong. Anyways, good luck with the process / it's probably in your interest to minimize further discussion until this is resolved.

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic11.html

hmmm, i actually never thought of that. Now, im really at a cross roads as to what i should do in court...

[hozer]

So basically what you're saying is that when you see people doing legal things and attempting to stay within the law, it makes you want to go on a powertrip, and go out of your way to screw them over just to show them that fighting tickets is futile?

Your type is exactly the "problem cop" that people refer to. If more effort was spent chasing real criminals and less time spent making people's lives miserable who are trying to prove their innocence maybe people wouldn't have to fight every ticket. It's too bad that this will probably be read with a closed mind but if you can't see a problem with your line of thinking that's really unfortunate.

No man, totally open mind. My point may have been missed slightly, I'm not talking about those with legitimate innocence. But ambiguous laws (needlessly loud), or speeding tickets. The reason you got one is because I think it's loud or I caught you speeding... The law says I can do that and I will and in reality, how many fought tickets are innocence... 10% maybe? If the law is clear, sure fight it but if you have a loud ass exhaust and it's making my job require more effort, probably gonna be a wiener about it.

As for you saying a cop like me is the problem, I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately my generation makes up a good chunk of them an they do think just like me. I'm just saying how it is and how you can save yourself grief, not how I feel it should be. This is how it is. Been pulled over by dudes like me before and never had an issue, if you bend over and take it the "power" they have or may feel is gone.

This isn't an opinion more just a fact of life. People are jerks and if you make yourself known to the jerks with power, your only hurting yourself.

I agree that it's stupid 100% and that I look like a total chump for having said this but I'd rather not be on file as a 22 year old that has fought 2 loud exhaust tickets that i fought, filed a complaint and has a speeding ticket... That looks bad on their little police laptop and I promise you will increase your ticketed rate.

And yes I see a huge problem with what I said previously, it's totally the worst possible attitude.

No hate to the boys in blue, I respect what they do. No hate to those of you that fight tickets. I'm just bluntly stating how I feel about the nature of these tickets.

EDIT: I'm not a police officer nor do I condone or support thinking like what I said. It's simply the reality. Traffic cops gotta make a name for themselves and low ticket counts don't accomplish that... Gotta get the bills paid and I choose my battles, the police is not one.

[Murchie]

*update*

Cruising on the 401. Exited and heading down the ramp while passing an OPP cruiser. Kept driving casually. We passed each other on the local roads a couple times and that is when he pulls behind me and puts on the cherries.

Officer: *walks up to the skyline* .. Have you heard you exhaust?
Me: Ummm i can hear it..
Officer: DO you think its loud?
Me: Not excessively loud officer.
Officer: Do you plan on changing the exhaust?
Me: Ummmmmmm, why would i change it..its not excessively loud..officer
Officer: Where is your right hand drive sticker?
Me: Officer, according to the HTA..we do not need one.
Officer: License and registration *wierd look on his face*

Now, in my rear view mirror i can see the officer on his cell phone> probably calling in because as mentioned in this thread, i have already been ticketed for loud exhaust (read through the whole thread!).

Officer: *walks back to the car*...rev it for me!
Me: gently revs the engine
Officer: Rev it more!
Me: Gave it a couple solid revs.
Officer: *had this disgusted look on his face..like he wanted to ticket me soo badly but couldn't* Hands me my license and registration


End of story..I'm thinking i didn't get ticketed because my previous ticket is still being processed within the courts.

[Snake556]

Lol, well, looks like you won that one. Good luck on fighting the ticket! Murchie, do you by chance have a vid of your car running? I'm curious why they think it's "so loud"

[Murchie]

Lol, well, looks like you won that one. Good luck on fighting the ticket! Murchie, do you by chance have a vid of your car running? I'm curious why they think it's "so loud"

Thanks mans.

Hmmm, my video camera is pretty shitty man. Im running a Full R-SR Exhaust (full turbo-back) and 900cfm Hi-Flo Cat

[Murchie]

Update!

Office didn't show up to court. The ticket was thrown out!

[ColinR33]

Congrats!

[r33_gtst]

Unnecessary noise is just that, unnecessary
Squeeling tires
Loud music
Revving engine for no apparent reason

Your defense is "the noise produced by my car is necessary. City busses and transport trucks are much louder than vehicles because of the size and the noise produced is necessary to the vehicle. They don't get unnecessary noise violations because the noise is necessary, as is the noise produce by my vehicle"

Glad it got thrown out. He prob had no evidence anyways. Just an easy ticket to write at the time