Handling improvements without coilovers.

[DreadedFist]

So some people have been having fun on some local roads lately, myself included, and it occured to me that my car doesn't handle nearly as well as I think it does. Car is a 92 gtst, bone stock suspension with the exception of rear subframe collars (and I guess a strut bar, I guess that's part of the suspension)

I'm pretty satisfied with my stock ride height, because it means I don't have to worry about smashing my car into various objects as I drive over them. Being able to go over speed bumps at normal speeds is super. But alas, it comes at a price.

Body roll. That, and the "the car doesn't feel like it's enjoying this" sensation when going through some twisties can be unnerving. I really don't want coilovers, but I really do want improved handling. I've heard conflicting opinions on strut bars, but no one ever argues that sway bars aren't worth their weight in gold. I have no idea what kind to buy though. Cusco? Whiteline? What's going to give the car a very stable handling feel in corners? It's a street car, and I don't want to slide it around.

What kind of diameters are best when it comes to sway bars on a street car? I've searched around, but no one has ever definitively said "well you need 22mm front and 24mm rear for oversteer, 22mm front 22mm rear for neutral and 24mm front and 22mm rear for understeer".

Do new stiffer bushings help get rid of that wollowy "omg my car feels like it's going to break lose/understeer" sensation? My car basically feels like it's either going to break the rear end lose, or start understeering. And it transitions between those two points quite abruptly. It's fine up until I'm moving quickly, but as soon as I hit "quickly", the car starts scaring me :P

My tires aren't the best high performance tire money can buy, but they don't suck either, and they have tread on them. This definitely feels more like a "this 20 year old suspension sucks" sensation. Here is my plan, confirm/deny its effectiveness if you like:

• front and rear swaybars (sizes?)
• rear strut bar (have the front, might as well get the rear)
• new subframe/diff bushings, since mine are getting old and look original
• ??? other bushings ???

Do lowering springs improve handling or just lower the car? I'd lower like an inch if it meant better handling.

Flame away.

[Skym]

Stock shocks are where one of the problems is. If not leaking from top of shock, they are worn out way before 50,000km. They can make car take longer to stop, lose traction, etc. Replace with Monotube shocks like rebuildable Bilstein Circlip adjustable height shocks for R32 GTS-T. They last roughly 150,000km between rebuilds and can be upgraded for race use. Or similar spanner adjustable height coilovers, but set car at near to stock height if you want clearance when entering driveways.

If using Montube Bilstein shocks, springs don't need to be replaced, as stock springs are perfect for road use. They do wearout and if springs have done over 100,000km, I would recommend to replace springs (or just buy good aftermarket spanner adjustable height coilovers), as springs can sag. But be aware that with spanner adjustable height coilovers, you need to corner weight car. Doesn't matter if it's a road or track car.

Snap oversteer is the HICAS. Lock the HICAS with lockbar (saves 5kg by removing rear steering rack) or better still, Driftworks HICAS lock kit, as the balljoints on wheel side of HICAS arms are removed (ball joints can get play and cause alignment problems, excessive tyre wear).

Swaybars are the best bang for buck mod you can do for handling (reducing body roll) and should be the last thing to do once suspension is setup. They are worked out by looking at shocks, springs, so you need to know those 2 before fitting swaybars. Then fine tune by adjusting them. Also swaybars solve the understeer problem on tight 90 degree corners that's caused by removing the HICAS.

Alignment is the last thing you do after fitting parts (if you do them in one go). Or alignment is done after fitting each part if you do one area at a time.

[GTR-Dad]

What he said.... plus take a performance driving course. Easily the highest value mod you'll do. And it's a ton of fun!

Dan

[DreadedFist]

thanks guys. For some reason I think "coilovers = 2 inches of the ground". They work just as well even with near stock ride height, I imagine? I think that I'm going to do the driftworks full hicas delete, since I want to get rid of the balljoints too.

Because I hate balljoints :P

[NismoS-tune]

I'm still learning O so very much about handling so I went for serious setups that were adjustable. I found that the car handle MUCH better with stiffer suspension that with softer ones (in example the Tein street coilovers were ok but didn't compare to the JIC I use now 12/10kg). I also use Cusco 30mm rear and slight smaller front sway bar to reduce roll, removed hicas and are installing more suspension components as I'm more about the corners than the straights. I kept my car at a good height but still lower than stock.

[Skym]

Those are the things I picked up on / noticed when setting my R32 GTS-T up. I used custom Bilstein shocks (modded to track spec), as they are a proven (fast laptimes) lower cost shocks (compared to top end shocks they are cheap) on racecars / trackcars / road cars (R35 GTR, Supra for examples) that can be upgraded.

My car is not lowered too much from stock ride height (halfshaft's are still at ^ angle when car is stationary) and handles the way I want it to. It has 2 setup options for grip or drift.

From memory, stock ride height was 370mm front and 360mm rear (middle of wheel to top of arch).

Also about oversteer, some pro drivers prefer their car to oversteer a bit on racetrack, as it supposedly helps to get around a corner quicker. For non pro driver I would suggest not to make your car oversteer.

[DreadedFist]

Also about oversteer, some pro drivers prefer their car to oversteer a bit on racetrack, as it supposedly helps to get around a corner quicker. For non pro driver I would suggest not to make your car oversteer.

I'd prefer slight understeer on both the street and the track Mostly because I've never tried super doriftoooo in anything but the snow doing 5kmh.

Now I want to spend money on a pro driver training course you dicks!!! I'll let you know if I find one that is rad.

edit: Somehow i managed to type "slut understeer". My mind must be in the gutter.

[Skym]

Would handle like this R32 GTS-T if it was oversteering a bit -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2az4jeRzvg

Allows you to throttle steer through the corner.