Disadvantages of Power fc

[gtrjon]

So I am looking int o a few ems's and I know alot of people run pfc and its relatively cheap but i also hear alot of people bashing it for it being a "dinosaur" i have talked to lawerence from intec racing in seattle and he swears by it. Apexi flew him out to japan to teach him every aspect of the powerfc and he says its the only way to go but i do know its older technology. So compared to something like aem ems v2 or link g4 extreme what would be some disadvantages of pfc djetro?

[hozer]

Go with what you tuner knows. ECU Could be NASA design and run the moon lander, but if your tuner isn't familiar with it, it does you no good.

Side note, I have the G4 and I love it

[DJ]

The power fc is proven to work as you can see with most gtr's in japan running it.Of course the newer ems's have additional features that can monitor and control other aspects of the engine but then again like "Hozer" said you should go with what your tuner knows.

[archaeic_bloke]

go with what your tuner knows, unless YOU are wanting to do something very specific.

on another note, Rob from RIPS new zealand runs a Link system in his Dragster

[jdms13rhd]

from the apexi site:

"The Power FC proudly stands as A'PEXi's answer to the constraints and limitations associated with most piggy-back style fuel controllers. The Power FC is a complete, stand alone, total engine management system capable of handling virtually anything thrown in its path. From multiple point fuel and ignition control to VTEC engagement (Honda applications) and boost settings, the Power FC is capable of accommodating even the most demanding performance enthusiasts. Currently available exclusively through Power Excel Shops the Power FC replaces the factory ECU and controls all vital engine parameters (Off road use only, no OBD-II). Installation is as easy as replacing the factory ECU. (Some minor rewiring is required on select vehicles). The factory engine harness does not need to be replaced and all critical accessories such as air conditioning continue to function. By using the optional FC COMMANDER, the user can adjust and modify a wide range of settings.

The Power FC proudly stands as A'PEX's answer to the constraints and limitations associated with most piggy-back style fuel controllers. The Power FC is a complete, stand alone, total engine management system capable of handling virtually anything thrown in its path. From multiple point fuel and ignition control to VTEC engagement (Honda applications) and boost settings, the Power FC is capable of accommodating even the most demanding performance enthusiasts.


Currently available only through Power Excel Shops, the Power FC replaces the factory ECU and controls all engine parameters.(Off road use only, no OBD-II) Installation is as easy as replacing the factory ECU. (Some minor rewiring is required on select vehicles.) The factory engine harness does not need to be replaced and all critical accessories such as air conditioning continue to function. By using the optional FC COMMANDER, the user can adjust and modify a wide range of settings. By changing various parameters and data, the Power FC will adapt to any of your performance needs. Since there is no need to upgrade ROM chips or trade in ECU's, the factory ECU can be kept by the original user.

The Power FC operates off of three Main Menus. These menus are : Monitor, Setting, and ETC.

In Monitor Mode, the Commander can display up to 10 parameters of data in real time. Monitor Mode can display:

Engine RPM
Ignition Timing
Vehicle Speed
Air Flow Voltage (Pressure Sensor Voltage)
Injector Duty Cycle
Boost
Knocking Level
Battery Voltage
Intake Air Temp
Water Temp


In addition, there are 4 display patterns allowing 1-8 parameters to be shown on screen at once. The data displays in numerical real time values with the option of a real time 10 second graph display. Peak Hold values and Display Hold functions only require the touch of a button. The Map Trace Mode allows Ghost Map Tracing of the Fuel Correction and Ignition Timing maps. This allows the user to visually see what point of the map is being used in real time. The Ghost Map Trace function leaves markers on the used portions of the map for easy reference.

Setting Mode allows full access to the 20x20 ignition timing and fuel correction maps. The user can adjust any portion of this map in 5x5 sections. Air flow correction values can be entered for vehicles upgrading air flow meters. Injector pulse correction menu is used when upgrading injectors on the engine. The Acceleration Enrichment Correction function improves response under hard and sudden acceleration. The Cranking Fuel Injection menu corrects the amount of fuel when the engine is being cranked, or when the water temperature is cold. A separate Water Temp menu allows fuel correction according to water temperature. The RPM menu allows rev limiter settings and idle RPM levels. Access menus also vary according to specialty engines. Rotary engine Power FC's accommodate leading and trailing ignition maps. Honda engines Power FC's allow for VTEC control. Complete boost control is possible by using the optional Boost Control Kit (Not necessary for vehicles that come factory turbocharged.). Changing data is easy: just access the desired point on the map or data, and push the FC COMMANDER keys in the appropriate direction.

The ETC Menu contains utility parameters such as : version information, LCD screen Brightness, and Initialization of all Data. In addition, the ETC Mode allows the user to monitor all factory sensors through one screen. This screen can tell the user if any sensor is in use or malfunctioning.

The Power FC also comes preprogrammed with several base maps. (Currently with Japan Domestic Market Vehicle Maps. Minor initial tuning may be required. Please contact your authorized Power Excel shop for more information.) This makes the initial tuning process much quicker. As with all other fuel controllers, the POWER FC should be tuned on a dynomometer by a trained professional. A high grade air/ fuel ratio monitor is also recommended during tuning to ensure best results.

FC COMMANDER
The FC COMMANDER is a hand held controller designed to allow access to the vital parameters within the Power FC. The unit allows a wide range of data modification through its large back lit LCD display. The unit has been designed so that one finger can control a wide array of data. Once connected, the Apex logo will appear in the screen taking the user to the Main Menu. From here, the user can access the three Main Menus (Monitor, Setting, Etc.) The FC COMMANDER "communicates" with the Power FC control unit thereby creating one of the first interactive user friendly fuel management systems.

BOOST CONTROL KIT
The Boost Control Kit is an optional kit designed to control boost through the Power FC. Simple connection to the Power FC allows the user to access a full self-learning boost controller. The Power FC allows up to 4 different boost presets for any stage of driving. The high grade solenoid valve is the same one used in our Super AVC-R boost controller. As with the S-AVCR, the Boost control kit allows increased boost response and boost stability at high RPM's"

the PFC could be better in many ways, but its a simple ecu that you yourself can purchase the software to tune it yourself (datalogit). I run this simple ecu because if I am at the track and blow a turbo, I myself can make the changes very quickly. I had a f-con v pro before and I would say that it was a much better ecu, but it limited me severely with my changing set ups. Another good thing about the PFC is that almost everyone and their dog is now familiar with the functions and software making it faster to tune and cheaper for the consumer. Overall, for the price, the PFC is one of the better options imo and am not saying there isnt better stuff out there, because there certainly is. I just think its good value and easy to use and consumer friendly

[Zacho]

This is in my personal experience:

-PFC with the hand commander is just a good way to run up your dyno bill and attract thieves. Get a datalogit
-Yes it is old, but proven simple as that. Very capable
-Idle can be hit or miss with very large injectors (1kcc +) but with 850cc I had no problems.
-It does lack features, but it is generally cheaper. What do you want from your ECU at the end of the day?

But ABOVE EVERYTHING - doesn't matter what ECU you have if your tuner sucks or he doesn't like your ECU.

I have a vipec. The new software has some simply awesome features. If I was on a tighter budget the PFC or nistune is what I probably would have looked into. The only thing I don't like is using 4 ignition drivers. I haven't ran into any problems yet but I'd rather have 6.

[jdms13rhd]

-PFC with the hand commander is just a good way to run up your dyno bill and attract thieves. Get a datalogit
-Yes it is old, but proven simple as that. Very capable
-Idle can be hit or miss with very large injectors (1kcc +) but with 850cc I had no problems.
-It does lack features, but it is generally cheaper. What do you want from your ECU at the end of the day?

But ABOVE EVERYTHING - doesn't matter what ECU you have if your tuner sucks or he doesn't like your ECU.

he's right. That controller is only good for monitoring. It is tho handy to take off a couple deg of timing across the board if your running higher elevations/track conditions. Just a few clicks on the controller can achieve that. But so many people think you can do a full tune or street tune on the controller.... that would take a long time making changes to every cell one at a time. If you go pfc, buy datalogit

I've heard good things about the vipec as well. More and more of those running in Alberta. Maybe because of cam at Lightspeed

[cschepp]

Great write up man! This explains slot about the powerfc. I personally went with it just because I thought it was a great all around unit that didn't cost a billion dollars and tuners for it are easy to come by around here.

[GTR-Dad]

PFC is capable, but feature thin. +1 to accurately defining what you want from your ECU and listening to your tuner.

Features I value highly in the ViPEC:
- Real time closed loop fuel trimming over a wide range of loads and rpms
- Individual cylinder knock control (requires external knock amp on V44)
- Fuel trim based on EGT. # channels limited by analog inputs on V44, do all 6 on the V88
- Powerful tuning strategies. (Requires more knowledgable tuner than simpler units like PFC)
- Control of whatever matters based on whatever you can measure.
Fan control based on temperature.
Meth/water injection
Soft limiter (alternating power stroke ignition cut) based on rpm or anything else you want. Oil pressure, low coolant temp, ....
Hard limiter for greater authority


Features that are cool, but I find I don't use
- Launch control.
- Flat shifting

Does any of this make the car go faster around the track than a PFC? Prbly not, but I like having the extra protection of the safety features. You can tune closer to the edge with knock control and fuel trimming and the soft limiter is easier on the engine.

Dan

[kengeroo]

I have the Apexi L-Jetro,,, no engine tuning expereince,,, learned from learning/googling on the NET and f*cking around with a free product called copilot that works with the Apexi PFC and datalogit....

http://forums.gtrcanada.com/gt-r-discussion/42822-gtr-tuning-power-f-c-2.html

http://www.mr2spyder.net/spyderweb/index.php?/topic/3-copilot-for-power-fc-download-and-discussion/?