Generic chip tuning

[PresurePopper]

So, when I was all into Audi's...
I had my 1.8T ecu chipped by APR
It gave my engine solid power gains, perfect drivabilty, and rock solid reliabilty.
I added it to a 160k engine and ran it with not a single issue for another 60k before I prematurely ended the cars life :/

I had a custom exhaust... custom intake....
Point being, random mods.

There were a few different options for chip tunes by well known companies. And this was the general way to go for alot of people. Sure alot of people had custom set ups and then required specific dyno tunes.
But for the most part, people stuck to the prepackaged chip tunes.

Now with the Skylines...
Everyone seems to be against anything besides a custom dyno tune.
I'm not arguing that you can get more out of a custom tune...
But why does everyone consider it so necesary?

I don't care if you have a 8 inch, full carbon nano tube exhaust system, fabricated by God himself. Its still not going to flow more air out of the same rb26 that everyone has, compared your typical 3-4" turbo back exhausts that everyone has. As an example....

Basically...So why does everyone need such custom tunes while sharing alot of the same mods on the exact same engine?

[danwit]

I have always wondered this myself. A good buddy of mine ordered a tune from a guy in the states through email for his subaru. A couple other buddys bought plug in tuners for a 300C and a mustang gt. Last year i took a gamble and bought a chipped ecu off flea bay. They said it was tuned for the same mods i had 3" exhaust, intake, 1 bar boost, vta bov etc.. The new ecu actually runs really well, its a tad on the rich side but better rich than lean.

[MKIV]

I have a friend running a chopped pre-tune from the states on his Supra and the car runs amazing as a daily and he gets 450-500km to a tank on 94 octane. Don't think there's anything wrong with chips.

[Nismoist]

While I am by no means an expert on this, here is my opinion based on what I have read on this forum:

I think one of the main issues for chip/ecu tunes on Skylines is the fuel that is available here. Our 94 octane (RON+MON)/2 is equal to 99 RON, regular Japanese gas is 100 RON, obviously Japanese high-grade is even higher. Since the vast majority of Skylines are in Japan it would only make sense that chip tuners would solely focus on Japanese fuel. Chipped Skyline owners in Japan are likely to only run high grade so it is likely that the chips would be tuned for a higher octane level than we have available at the pumps here. While this isnt a huge deal for normal driving if you are pushing the limits on pump gas you may encounter some detonation. Tuning is essentially removing some of the buffer left by the manufacturer for the sake of reliability and to modify for upgraded engine components, if you get too far out of the range intended by the chip manufacturer you can run into issues.

Like I said I am not an expert on this, I would like to see someone far more knowledgable on this topic than me chime in to shed some light on this issue.

[needavdub]

OTS (off the shelf) tunes are a commonplace in a lot of cars. Like nismoist said, the Japanese OTS tunes don't work well in North America due to the difference in fuels. A OTS tune for your exact mods will be fine to run, but you'll be making less power than a proper dyno tune. This is due to all OTS tunes being on the "safe side" when it comes to fuel ratios and ignition timing. All engines are different so a "one size fits all" tune will always be relatively cautious. What you really have to look at is cost vs. reward. If a OTS tune is 300 and a proper dyno tune for your exact car is only 5-600, most people (including myself) will always pay the extra for the better performance. This of course all gets a little muddy when you figure in the cost of aftermarket engine management though...

[PresurePopper]

Good point... I did not think about the fuel differences.
I do not think someone that is in the market for an "OTS" tune, is someone that wants to have to always put 94 or higher fuel in their car.

I do wish that there was a tunner that would develop an OTS North American tune though. I think there would be money to be made for them to chip stock ECUs and mail them back to their customers.

[Skym]

With mass production engines they are using same design exhaust's, intakes, etc. Also they tune engine conservatively for longevity, take into account leaking intake, exhaust manifolds, octane of petrol varies at service stations, etc.

With aftermarket you have different design's with exhaust's, intakes that produce different powerbands, airflow, boost levels, etc. Also different type of intercoolers (bar n plate, tube n fin, where flow, cooling is different), exhaust manifolds, etc. Just too many things to take into account that affect's boost level, fueling, ignition throughout powerband.

Also internal wastegate actuators are not the same (same boost level), so one engine might produce more or less boost than another engine and result's in more or less hp (leaner or richer). It's not uncommon to see 11kw x 1.341 = 14.751hp difference from highest to lowest when a few factory cars (10 cars) are tested back to back. A magazine in Japan did this test, forget which magazine.

BOV's are similar, stock BOV should leak after 10psi and some aftermarket BOV's don't which increases boost level and makes engine go leaner (where the extra hp comes from). Could be up to 28hp difference if stock BOV is leaking.

So a tune that is safe on one engine with one set of mods will knock on another engine with similar set of mods. Especially if ignition timing is advanced.

Only time it probably would work is if mods were from the same manufacturer, say Nismo for example.

[danwit]

^ excellent info. Thanks!

[MKIV]

Thanks Skym, really good stuff posted.

[Skym]

CFM difference between bar N plate and tube N fin intercoolers -

http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intec...MR.htm#Chinese Intercoolers

Get similar CFM difference with podfilters (posted a link to PDF / podfilter test a while ago with CFM differences).

[RSTuning]

I have personally chip tuned well over 50 GTR's in the past 3 years. As a business owner and a tuner the thought of mail chip tuning has crossed my mind to generate more income.

But after doing this for years i can guarantee that no two cars are the same even stock. Add to that different compression ratios,
different turbo's and the variables change tremendously.

On top of that a rb26dett swat due to a blown motor is 3 times more expensive than a awp or awd 1.8t motor.

But if you want to be more technical here we go.

I tune alot of bosch Me7.5 and me9.1 ecu's found in the mk4 and mk5 vw and audi vehicle's. both of these ecu's use whats called
Torque model algorythym . Basically the ecu is really smart and when you press the gas pedal you are requesting a certain amount of torque, the ecu checks current conditions and gives the desired Fuel and spark and boost to accomplish that torque request.

So a generic apr, revo tune works on 1.8t's across the world because these ecu's have fault detection built in, If you over boost you get kicked out and a engine light comes on.


The GTR ecu is way more basic, its whats referred to as an Alpha -n system were it check VE load versus rpm and you get that amount of fuel and timing.

IF you over boost boom, if you have too much timing boom.

To summerize it

Bosch ME7 ecu 1mb map file
Gtr Ecu, 32kb.

Get your gtr properly tuned or you can take a risk.

THanks

[M13]

finally someone who can prove all the chip-loving haters wrong!

I have personally chip tuned well over 50 GTR's in the past 3 years. As a business owner and a tuner the thought of mail chip tuning has crossed my mind to generate more income.

But after doing this for years i can guarantee that no two cars are the same even stock. Add to that different compression ratios,
different turbo's and the variables change tremendously.

On top of that a rb26dett swat due to a blown motor is 3 times more expensive than a awp or awd 1.8t motor.

But if you want to be more technical here we go.

I tune alot of bosch Me7.5 and me9.1 ecu's found in the mk4 and mk5 vw and audi vehicle's. both of these ecu's use whats called
Torque model algorythym . Basically the ecu is really smart and when you press the gas pedal you are requesting a certain amount of torque, the ecu checks current conditions and gives the desired Fuel and spark and boost to accomplish that torque request.

So a generic apr, revo tune works on 1.8t's across the world because these ecu's have fault detection built in, If you over boost you get kicked out and a engine light comes on.


The GTR ecu is way more basic, its whats referred to as an Alpha -n system were it check VE load versus rpm and you get that amount of fuel and timing.

IF you over boost boom, if you have too much timing boom.

To summerize it

Bosch ME7 ecu 1mb map file
Gtr Ecu, 32kb.

Get your gtr properly tuned or you can take a risk.

THanks

[MKIV]

Good stuff. All my VW friends use Revo/Eurodyne. Good comparison.

[PresurePopper]

I like intelligent car people

Makes me feel better about all the money I will be spending to tune my car lol