RB26 Power-readiness; Fact, fiction, and BS.

[cortexx]

When i say 20 years i mean design , not age . You cant really compare a 20 year DESIGN with a more uptodate design.

I have not tallied up how much i have spent because i'm not finished yet . I'll do that when i'm done. I didn't buy the car to make it the fastest car on the street , i bought it for it's lineage.

It seems like you are really looking for someone to post a simplistic answer to a complicated question. You don't realise this is a complicated question because you havn't done your research on the RB26. I would suggest musing over these threads that i searched for and found using the forum search utility in less time than it took me to type this ...

http://forums.gtrcanada.com/faq/58-gt-r-modifications-costs.html

http://forums.gtrcanada.com/gt-r-tech/23576-skyline-engine-mods-database.html

An old saying ... give a man a fish and he can feed himself for a day , show him how to fish and he can feed himself for life !

You'll notice that on the toolbar that has the GTR logo on the far left , there is an advanced search box on the far right. If you type in keywords in this box it will search the forums for threads based on your words . It's just like google .

Don't mean to sound elitist or rude but unless you read up on this it's going to look like you are debating and debating with people trying to help you until you get the answer you are hoping for .

[xcye]

Dodge Neon, I meant the SRT-4. With a little modification, it can be very fast in straight line.

Also, xcye... Can't even beat a slightly modded Dodge Neon...? You sure you got a Skyline GTR? .
A stock GTR, regardless of which, R32, R33 even moreso, will spank those compact 4-cyl cars...The GTR isn't the NSX... Overpriced, and pretty, but doesn't go particularly fast.

[bobbo]

You'll notice that on the toolbar that has the GTR logo on the far left , there is an advanced search box on the far right. If you type in keywords in this box it will search the forums for threads based on your words . It's just like google.

That was the first post I made! I'm suprised it took this long for someone else to say it.

[hozer]

The problem with your argument or points is you're comparing apples to oragnes. The cobra motor was built, the RB26 was designed and engineered; this is the reason it was revolutionary in its time. When things are engineered, the tolerances for mods become far smaller, regardless of the quality or reliability of the motor or any part for that matter.

In addition, the engine is not "DETUNED", rather it is optimally tuned for the sum of its parts. Airplane engines are built the same way. Can produce 50,000 lbs of thrust but they run at 30 because that is whats optimal. Wanna run at 50? You need to buy an engine that can make 100. Its not about pushing limits, its about reliability and for that supporting mods and "more than required" are needed.

You can't just modify a bridge to support more weight simply becuase of how intricate its design is. Add support here and you add stress on this piece, add support to the stressed piece and now integrity is in question. A GT-R is no different. The car was engineered and designed. Mess with it and stuff is going to break unless you overhaul it all.

[cortexx]

Indeed Bobbo, i did give some time before repeating what some consider the obvious but I also acknowledge there are just people that don't know how to use it effectively

[Prenihility]

@hozer. What exactly do you mean the cobra motor was built, while the rb was engineered? I think i understand what you're saying. General rule of engineering is, the more complex a machine, the more problematic. But, still, could you please elaborate?

Also, in regards to the RBs detuned status. It's definately detuned. I've done my "homework" for sure. And according to Andy Butler's "Skyline GTR, the Ultimate Japanese Supercar" it is very much detuned, and not what it intended to be. Good read, by the way, i highly recommend everyone who loves the car to grab a copy. Trust me, it's that good. Pretty much an encyclopedia for the car.

Just recapping. I sort of understand what you said. I would just like you to elaborate a little on that to make things more clear, and thorough.

Finally, i don't accept the RB26s complexity for Nissan not giving it what it should have. More tough drivetrain parts.Look at the latest and greatest R35 GTR. The clutch doesn't need replacing when you pursue more power, or anything in the engine block, for that matter (of course, as previously stated by someone, every engine has it's limits, but, for something like an extra 200HP, the VR38 is ready to go).

Furthermore. Alright, in relation to what you're saying about the RB being engineered, coupled with every iteration of the engine , AND car being more refined... The R34, i imagine, is more like the R35, no? Power-ready?


But in the end, i'll still do it all myself,for the Skyline GTR, ahahahah . I just love the car too much. It still won't drive me away from the car, not a chance.


@ cortexx: Thanks for the links, i'll be sure to read on, and search more

And again, thanks to both of you for not losing your s*** with me . Im not here to argue, just a friendly discussion to some tea. Pinkies up, fellas .

Just those remaining questions above should be enough for me.

[MarusGTR]

Also, in regards to the RBs detuned status. It's definately detuned. I've done my "homework" for sure. And according to Andy Butler's "Skyline GTR, the Ultimate Japanese Supercar" it is very much detuned, and not what it intended to be. Good read, by the way, i highly recommend everyone who loves the car to grab a copy. Trust me, it's that good. Pretty much an encyclopedia for the car.

It's good, I love the pictures and all, but not THAT good. One spot that irked me was when he said RBs are short for Race Bred... that's more of a fan invention than anything, IIRC no one confirmed the denomination's origin and Nissan always used random letters for their engines with no meaning, other than the letters "E" "T" and the numbers indicating displacement in liters.

[burton160]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ttCavbTJO0

[hozer]

@hozer. What exactly do you mean the cobra motor was built, while the rb was engineered? I think i understand what you're saying. General rule of engineering is, the more complex a machine, the more problematic. But, still, could you please elaborate?

Finally, i don't accept the RB26s complexity for Nissan not giving it what it should have. More tough drivetrain parts.Look at the latest and greatest R35 GTR. The clutch doesn't need replacing when you pursue more power, or anything in the engine block, for that matter (of course, as previously stated by someone, every engine has it's limits, but, for something like an extra 200HP, the VR38 is ready to go).

The RB had far more thought put into it than did the 4.6 and has remain essentially unchaged throughout the years, only ever put into a GT-R. The RB was also a 90's engine and by 90's standards, took quite a bit of power upgrading. It only looks weak now becuase of all the new technology we have where 100's of extra HP is easy.

The 4.6 originated in a Lincoln and was in a dozen other vehicles before the cobra. It was built and then modified slightly for application depending on the car it was going in, it was an engine they already built that they found out they could make go fast.

A great way to look at it now would be comapring the R35 to other vehicles now. For arguments sake lets say it costs you 100K all in. IMO that is the best possible value, performance wise, you can possibly get. It has insane factory specs; all because this car was thought about and engineered. I believe all other things considered equal, this car is identically comparable to the R32. But 20 years later, times and technology have changed. Safely you can milk ~150HP out of the VR and ~100 out of the RB. What more do you want?

Here is an article that communicates my point:

"With big heavy piston, big heavy connecting rod, and plenty of rod bearing oil clearance (the VR38's factory rod bearing oil clearance spec is the largest OE spec I've ever seen in my career), and healthy oil pressure, a big heavy piston can work at 480bhp @ 7000 rpm. But with people now making 700+bhp @ 8000 rpm with larger turbos, intercoolers, bolt ons and tuning/ecu work, the situation becomes extremely marginal for anything beyond a dyno pull or a 1/4 mile pass. Just because Joe Blow Racing made 700+hp on a stock bottom end doesn't make it right either. 750+hp WILL end in catastrophe with a stock engine. Understand that just because somebody made 750+hp on the dyno, it does not mean that he is not running the engine beyond it's design parameters. Even if a stock engine did not self destruct immediately, the high mass of the stock piston and rod will likely cause premature wear and failure of other components such as cylinder walls, wrist pin, rod/rod bushing, rod bearing, crank, etc."

Sure it CAN but for how long... It wasnt designed that way.

Babies fall out of apartments and live but no one makes the broad statement "Babies can survive 6 story falls", that would be dumb... But for whatever reason a handful of guys push an engine to its limit and everyone thinks the engine can regularly make 750HP. For every one sucess story you probably have 10 dudes crying in their ass soup over blown engines. No one brags about those but the 750HP club makes it on every car forum there is, so it prepetuates itself.

The RB is a great engine but too many people think it makes crazy power with bigger turb0z, phat intercoolers and injectors when its simply not the case. The same thought that was put into building it originally needs to be put into it when upgrading it.

[bobbo]

... and for the record Cobras sound amazing when tuned/with a good exhaust.

[Rblove26]

Just my two cents here, being a fan of both skylines and mustangs, i think its a totally different thing when you look at is as efficiency. Take the 4.6 DOHC supercharged cobra making 390 hp (lets say what the advertise stock), sure its making more power than a gtr, but really its making roughly 85 hp/litre of displacement versus the gtr making 280hp out of 2.6L rounds out to 108 hp/litre. Which one sounds better to you? Not trying to add any arguments, just mentionning cuz friends of mine with there 5.0 are always saying blah blah blah, but when you consider im running close to what they are stock and having half the displacement doesnt make me think any less of the skyline platform.
again, just my opinion

[Prenihility]

Just my two cents here, being a fan of both skylines and mustangs, i think its a totally different thing when you look at is as efficiency. Take the 4.6 DOHC supercharged cobra making 390 hp (lets say what the advertise stock), sure its making more power than a gtr, but really its making roughly 85 hp/litre of displacement versus the gtr making 280hp out of 2.6L rounds out to 108 hp/litre. Which one sounds better to you? Not trying to add any arguments, just mentionning cuz friends of mine with there 5.0 are always saying blah blah blah, but when you consider im running close to what they are stock and having half the displacement doesnt make me think any less of the skyline platform.
again, just my opinion

I'll make it short. Displacement proportionate to power in US V8s; LS1 for example. 350HP, 5665 cc. They want you to experience 350HP through 5.7Ls. Nothing more. It's called torque.

The RB has boost. It's not quantum physics. So much boost, in fact, that the displacement gets multiplied by 1.7, according to group A racing regulations. Your sig should remind you . C'mon, now.




@hozer In relation to my questions. Your explainations are serving as better answers, than your answers . Just pointing that out. That's what i wanted to hear.

Also, not to sound like a biggity-biggity bitch...And/or a fanboy, but... The 4.6Mod in the Cobra = Day/Night difference between the 4valve 4.6Mod found in the Cobra (which, mind you, is exclusive to the Cobra), than the first 4.6Mod. They are quite different engines.

Like comparing an RB20 to an RB26, just because they're a part of the RB series.

But, all in all. My questions have been answered. Thanks to all of you who participated in this wonderful knowledge-gaining-mess .



@Marus92 I guess i missed that part. That...must have been embarassing for him...Eek... *facepalm*. It's pretty clear that it was started by fans of the car... Damn, i only hear that from teenagers.




@bobbo ; yes, yes they do. And there's way too many combinations to play around with in terms of exhaust...GAH...

One of the reasons why i love single-exhausts. Good old RB baritone growl....BRR-BRR-BRR-BRR...


Thank you all, for your replies. I'll be starting a new thread in the coming days. When the mood strikes. It'll be more of a single question, and mystery to a lot of people. Myself, anyway . It's a very strange phenomena for the RB26 engine...

[bobbo]

^^^I'm a huge V-8 fan. I was born and raised on muscle cars but I love the technology and the "tinkering" that is required to make a smaller displacement engine produce even better performance.
That being said don't be suprised if I end up with a C-6 ZO6 in my garage in the next year or so

[gtrjerry73]

All good info and just my two cents comparing a circuit racing monster to a drag strip monster, when I think gtr I think cornering tune-ability. Ya you can get a thousand horse out of them with a fat wallet, it's not what they are designed for. I wouldn't look to get any more than 650 out of a gtr cause you would have too much lag for it to be useful around corners. Which is mostly why I bought one in the first place.

As for the de-tuned aspect of course they are, when your comparing it to a group-A race car. Completely different suspension setup, oil system, transmission. It was "redesigned" to be sold to the general public. And a far cry from a 500 horse group-a car that made them so desirable in the first place. A quick cornering super responsive car is what Nissan had in mind not a torque monster that is only good in a straight line good thread. Sparked my interest

[gtrjerry73]

Oh and about the clutch thing. It's all wheel drive. Way way way more stress on the clutch when your wheels don't spin... Much