Petition to Revise Street Racing Legislation

[5cott]

If you're opposed to this fairly new law which was just ruled unconstitutional last month by an Ontario Court of Justice Judge:
(http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityne...to-lay-charges)
then sign the petition:


http://www.petitiononline.com/civil013/petition.html


At the time there is over 7000(pretend its 9,000) people signed. (OVER 9000!!!!!!)

[Prophetic]

'Only refers to that one case'

Apparently the Sgt. has never heard of precedent.

[DarkCaporaL]

'Only refers to that one case'

Apparently the Sgt. has never heard of precedent.

Exactly. Jurisprudence FTW.

All we need is a second case to go to court and win (which wont take long since one has already been won), and then it's over.

Once two judges rule that this law is unconstitutional, they will have to stop using it.

Unless of course the next judge rules that it is constitutional, but I would doubt that. Unless the current decision is indubiously flawed, they will follow each other.

Or the province could repass the law under section 33 excemption of the Charter, and then there's nothing you can do about it. But they'll never do that. That section as only been applied once since it's creation.

[Shadao]

Exactly. Jurisprudence FTW.

All we need is a second case to go to court and win (which wont take long since one has already been won), and then it's over.

Once two judges rule that this law is unconstitutional, they will have to stop using it.

Unless of course the next judge rules that it is constitutional, but I would doubt that. Unless the current decision is indubiously flawed, they will follow each other.

Or the province could repass the law under section 33 excemption of the Charter, and then there's nothing you can do about it. But they'll never do that. That section as only been applied once since it's creation.

and because you mentioned it... thats exactly whats gonna happen now... lol

[m_melen]

haha NO MORE NAWS ON THE HIGHWAYS!

[demon746]

this is section 172 - 13 in the ontario HTA, 172 deals with "racing" and "stunt" driving on highways

no appeal or hearing
172 (13) There is no appeal from, or right to be heard before, a vehicle detention, driver’s licence suspension or vehicle impoundment under subsection (5), (6) or (7), but this subsection does not affect the taking of any proceeding in court. 2007, c. 13, s. 21.


wtf?

[RABBIT]

i dont like street racing ... i just like to race on the streets.

but yeah i dont see how a petition is going to help to be honest . they work on a local level but dont do much after that. i hope it gets abolished , but then again i hope the create unregulated stretch of all the 407 ... well see.

[Snow]

Maybe I'll be the first guy to say it...

Maybe I'll get trashed for it...

But... C'mon...

Look at it economically. Of course it's against rights to refuse the opportunity to defend a ticket but come on, what excuse do you have for doing 50 over? Or having your nitrous hooked up? Or just driving like a plain lunatic on the highway?

When someone crashes and kills 3 or 4 people (see the Toronto BMW driver thread from a few months back) everyone bitches how they need to be more strict, stop this **** from happening, put the guy away forever etc etc. Then when something that could be viewed as constructive comes up here everyone whines and cries because they never think they'll be the one to cause that accident, just be the one to get caught being a fu*ktard and getting the ticket.

Now I'm not saying that I have or have not done any of those things listed. And I don't think they're going to outright deny your right to defend yourself (innocent until proven guilty) BUT this "idea" as we'll call it does two things:

1.) Saves tax dollars on needless appeals

Sir how do you plead?
Not guilty your honor.
You were doing over 200 in a 90, how are you not guilty?
My finger slipped, I hit the wrong switch, it was only supposed to be a 50-shot your honor.
Oh well in that case you will be pardoned. But if I see you in here again we're talking spanking mister.

2.) The shear thought of not being able to appeal a stupid act, and possibly get off with a lighter sentence is a deterrent. Same thing with that street racing regulation that would have your car impounded and crushed... sure made a lot of people think twice before launching at a green.

What does the new law against street racing and stunt driving call for? Here's the list:
-The minimum fine is $2,000 while the maximum is $10,000 after a conviction, the highest penalty in Canada.
-Police can issue an immediate seven-day driver's licence suspension and seven-day vehicle impoundment for street racing, participating in a driving contest or stunt driving.
-Courts can impose a driver licence suspension of up to 10 years for a second conviction, if the second conviction occurs within 10 years of the first.
-For a first conviction, the maximum licence suspension period remains at 2 years.
-The definition of a "driving stunt" includes driving a motor vehicle at 50 km/h or more above the posted speed limit.

The worst they will/can do is give you a 7 day suspension (roadside by the cops, which is what everyone is bitching about, cops having too much power). Not much different than a DUI. Everything else (major fines, 10 year suspensions etc.) have to be after a conviction/a court finds the person guilty.

Anyways I'm just playing devils advocate here... my $0.02

[superdaveosbourne]

I see what you're saying, and I do have to agree that there are very few reasons to be going 50 over which I won't get into here, not the point.

The main thing that I hate about this legislation is the fact that anything can be considered stunting based on how the cop feels that day. There have been accounts of people waving at each other at a red and getting dinged for stunting because the cop "thought" they were going to race. Thought...

Or what if some kid guns it past you because he wants to look cool to all his friends in his _______ (<- insert POS with fart cannon here), cop sees this and nails the 2 of you for street racing even though you were just cruising around? Is that fair? Even if you go to court and the charges are dropped, you still lost your license for a week, payed all the impound fees, have to deal with higher insurance for the loss of the license and you don't get your money back. Trust me, my buddy had to go through this and the only way to get your money back is to basically bring the Province to small claims court. Good luck with that.

I can live with the finite numbers, like 50 over, because you have a speedometer and can control that. The rest, not so much.

[m_melen]

i was going 100kph in a 50kph zone in the montreal west island once. it was on the 40 side road just east of pointe claire in a non-residential area, one that would be a 90 kph zone anywhere else in the universe. got a 335 dollar ticket.
yes, i was dumb, but it was a dumb speed limit. in ontario it woulda been "street racing" or whatever crap that is. should i lose 10k and my license and maybe my car over it? no.

[Snow]

I see what you're saying, and I do have to agree that there are very few reasons to be going 50 over which I won't get into here, not the point.

The main thing that I hate about this legislation is the fact that anything can be considered stunting based on how the cop feels that day. There have been accounts of people waving at each other at a red and getting dinged for stunting because the cop "thought" they were going to race. Thought...

Or what if some kid guns it past you because he wants to look cool to all his friends in his _______ (<- insert POS with fart cannon here), cop sees this and nails the 2 of you for street racing even though you were just cruising around? Is that fair? Even if you go to court and the charges are dropped, you still lost your license for a week, payed all the impound fees, have to deal with higher insurance for the loss of the license and you don't get your money back. Trust me, my buddy had to go through this and the only way to get your money back is to basically bring the Province to small claims court. Good luck with that.

I can live with the finite numbers, like 50 over, because you have a speedometer and can control that. The rest, not so much.

I agree with what you're saying, and that sucks to hear about what your friend went through with that dipshit racing by him. I don't know if there's any way around it by telling the cops you have no idea who he was. Maybe if he said the same and admitted to being a dipshit and just trying to show off you friend would get off, or people in said situation. I think if you argued that you were going the speed limit and acting mature that it wasn't your fault. Then again I don't know details on what happened (whether your friend tried or not). Maybe he can sue the dumbass in the other car. I dunno, but I do agree that's kinda bs that it's up to the cops discretion.

i was going 100kph in a 50kph zone in the montreal west island once. it was on the 40 side road just east of pointe claire in a non-residential area, one that would be a 90 kph zone anywhere else in the universe. got a 335 dollar ticket.
yes, i was dumb, but it was a dumb speed limit. in ontario it woulda been "street racing" or whatever crap that is. should i lose 10k and my license and maybe my car over it? no.

I think you're missing the point here... If said laws existed would you have been doing 100 in a 50? Would you really risk it?

I think not.

And if this is your first ticket your MAXIMUM fine would have been $2000, and 7 day suspension. If you've had another one like that within however many years like the law states, then yes you would have deserved to lose your license and your car. Don't drive 50 over. Save yourself the tickets and put that into track time. However that's just my opinion. I got tagged doing 102 in a 60 (in my work truck). I got let off with a minimum ticket because it was my first ticket (not a single violation of any form, no parking tickets or anything) and I had been driving for 6 years... I was being stupid like you. Same situation as you. 4 lanes and the speed limit was 60. BUT if there was a law that I would have suffered such consequences I would have gotten inherently smarter when the law passed and never been going that fast anyways.

The main idea here is to deter people from doing stupid **** with stiffer sentences, and no opportunity to necessarily defend them in certain cases. No more, no less.

[love_boost]

i dislike street racing so i beleive in this.
i constantly get harrased to race even in my civic... like common its a civic leave me alone haha.

there is no reason to drive 50 over the limit. i will admit when i first started i was an idiot... but after doing it a few times there really is no reason for it.

but i do think that it should have smaller consequences for first time offenders, second time it should be a stiffer penalty, people do learn and change getting caught once.

[Snow]

i dislike street racing so i beleive in this.
i constantly get harrased to race even in my civic... like common its a civic leave me alone haha.

there is no reason to drive 50 over the limit. i will admit when i first started i was an idiot... but after doing it a few times there really is no reason for it.

but i do think that it should have smaller consequences for first time offenders, second time it should be a stiffer penalty, people do learn and change getting caught once.

Yes I agree. Keep in mind everything says Maximum Sentence/Penalty, that isn't what will specifically be handed out. Just like I got the minimum ticket when I was speeding, other first time offenders would likely receive lesser charges when a cop looks up the history of said driver. They could have given me a $500 ticket that day (at the very least) just for speeding. If they wanted they could have tagged on wreckless driving as well which would have added another wonderful chunk. Not to mention that would have put me on the dangerous drivers premium with ICBC raising my insurance up. Then when my points came up at the end of the year that could have been even more $$$.

If a cop wants to try and screw you, they will try and screw you. This is just a far more in-your-face threat that you might listen to. If the ministry of transportation decided to remove everyones seat belts and put a fat dagger sticking out or your steering wheel you probably wouldn't speed/tail gate etc either.All this is, is a scare tactic.

[M13]

i constantly get harrased to race even in my civic... like common its a civic leave me alone haha.

One easy way to make them feel like crap without actually racing when ignoring them is not a choice.

doing this(exact facial expression needed):








then short shift when green light comes in.

[DarkCaporaL]

The whole problem with this legislation is that it bypasses the fundemental rights of a democracy. And yes ladies and gents we live in a democracy.

You CANNOT have a democratic society that gives unreasonable discretion or unreasonable power to your enforcement agencies.

For this case, it can have SERIOUS repercussions on an individual just because *the cop felt like being a **** that day*. Sure it probably rarely happens, but the problem is that the *possibility* is there.

Were not talking about a 150$ fine for window tints, a loud exhaust, side markers or rear third brake light, were talking serious costs. For example, if your someone who needs his license to work, then you've effectively lost one weeks pay on top of the impound fees and losing your license bullsh*t.

The one principle of law is that you are innocent before proven guilty, and to impose sanctions prior to a judgment by bypassing our Court system, is outright flawed.

It's the exact same thing as the Bill C-6 debate, which gave inspectors the right to search, seize and destroy without needing Court orders, and not be held accountable.

Might aswell move to China or something.