Should be pay so much for insuring a Skyline? No, but I need help to fix this!

[Bonsai]

As a Skyline r32 GTR owner in Ontario, and the owner of a few other JDM cars, I am worried about an increasing negative insurance environment. Many providers are refusing to write new policies and others are choosing not to renew existing policies. If this trend continues, JDM cars will be effectively removed from the roads in Ontario and elsewhere and the resale market will be destroyed.

Given recent issues a number of JDM owners have had with insurance, we have found that insurance companies are basing their knowledge of JDM cars solely on a single, statistically flawed, study completed in British Columbia (ICBC). It seems that there has been no effort to collect data to support our cause, and one of our causes should be to get fair insurance.

My aim is to compile data from JDM drivers across the country to try and prove we are safe, low risk drivers and our cars are safe as well. Insuring us should not have to be a &''(%-fight! Proving we are low risk and should have access to fair insurance without having to do an exhaustive search could also be a starting point for protecting the 15 year law.

I will supply my findings to anybody who asks, but I need as many responses as possible. Below I have put together a fairly simple survey, with the help of a friend in the insurance business. We will present findings to a variety of underwriters in the province with the hope of securing insurance that will not pull the rug out from under us, like has been happening to many drivers in this province. If you want to help, please cut and paste the survey to me in an e-mail. If you want, you can provide your name and more information/ rants/ thoughts/ reflections, but this can also be anonomous. I would really appreciate it if some of the long-time members of this forum would help me with this cause.

Your JDM Make/model/spec/year:
Your driving infractions in the last year/ever:
Have you ever been in an accident with your JDM/was it the fault of the JDM:
Do you feel safe driving a RHD:
Have you ever made an insurance claim on your JDM:
Did your insurance company have to provide you with a rental because of lengthy repairs:
How long do repairs typically take:
Is it easy to get parts for your JDM:
Do you have a reliable source for parts:
Is your JDM a target for theft:
Do you think your JDM is easy or hard to steal compared to other 15 year old cars:

mail your responses to craig@bonsairides.com

[aN4rk1]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

You might want to start off reading this thread (some posts are definetly old but worth the read):

http://forums.gtrcanada.com/eastern-region/11367-insurance-ontarians.html

As for your survey,

Your JDM Make/model/spec/year: 1991 Nissan Skyline GT-R
Your driving infractions in the last year/ever: Speeding, 129 in 100 zone in april of 2009 NOT IN MY SKYLINE HOWEVER
Have you ever been in an accident with your JDM/was it the fault of the JDM: No to both
Do you feel safe driving a RHD: 100%, i feel its made me a better driver because now I can drive both LHD and RHD
Have you ever made an insurance claim on your JDM: No
Did your insurance company have to provide you with a rental because of lengthy repairs: N/A
How long do repairs typically take: N/A
Is it easy to get parts for your JDM: Somewhat yes, but its expensive
Do you have a reliable source for parts: RHDJapan.com
Is your JDM a target for theft: I sure hope not!
Do you think your JDM is easy or hard to steal compared to other 15 year old cars: Id say harder since I have a pretty decent alarm with a shock sensor, audible alarm, etc

I also see that you are from London, So am I! Where are you in London, next time iam in the area, maybe we have a chat.

[Nexsys]

Edit 2: Emailed

[Bonsai]

Hi an4rk1
Thanks for the response and I am glad to be here!
The recent posts in Insurance for ontarians kind of illustrate this new problem- brokers are going to facility for good drivers, and Urszula of allstate has been told by her head office she can't take on any more JDM's period. Its funny, because 2 months ago she was showing me the stack of Skyline files she was insuring.. but no more!
shoot me a mail when you are next in town craig@bonsairides.com I am near UWO

[JVizZLe]

thank god someone is fighting back for the jdm community!!!

[quadracer111]

sent....

[Nismoist]

Bonsai this is a great idea but I have a few questions/suggestions to make it better:

Have you checked out IVOAC? They may have already compiled a portion of the data you are looking for. Also since they are the leaders on the legality front they may be able to provide you some insight on creating an effective data set.

You mentioned that you developed this data set with the assistance of a friend in the insurance industry. Is your friend a broker, adjuster, actuary, etc.?

What statistical data are you intending to develop based on this survey? Perhaps we will be able to offer suggestions regarding the best way to generate said data.

Can you please refresh our collective memory why was the ICBC study statistically flawed?

[Snake556]

Glad to see someone fighting back against the insurance industry! What they're doing is pointless and unfounded. Just because it's "different" they don't want to cover it.

To be honest, I feel this is a form of automotive segregation. Car racism, if you will

[dah_hunter]

ICBC study was flawed because it didnt take things like location, and age into consideration..

also it had fabricated numbers on it.. like 1997 skylines.. and other stuff..

it was just throw together.. and a joke really..

IVOAC.ca is a good place for info about this.

[Bonsai]

Hi Nismoist,
My friend who helped put this together is a broker, so essentially we want to present our findings to a lot of underwriters. The explanation from some underwriters as to why they are suddenly deciding to write new rules to prevent new RHD policies is that parts are uncommon, repairs are lengthy, they think the RHD is 40% more likely to have a crash (ICBC found that RHD owners under 25 compared to the general population)- all in all we are too risky and our repairs are too costly.
In reality, I want to show that if we are buying one of these cars we have already done our research- we have a reliable source for parts, we can work on them ourselves or know a good mechanic, and that we take a lot of care in them (probably much more so than a domestic driver) because these are rare, awesome cars!
The ICBC study is a good read if you are into satire. Insurance companies here claim it the only resource they have on the subject which is extremely unfortunate. I have searched a lot of forums to try and find reference to any documents or studies in our favor relevant to the Canada market and found nothing, so what I am doing seemed like a good starting point.
Any suggestions would be very much appreciated!
And guys, so far I have about 30 responses from this and some other forums, so thanks very much for your input! If you are on any other forums feel free to copy my first post there or send it out to any JDM drivers you know.

[BrooklinsFinest]

heres a thought, wait 10 years after getting your licence, buy a winter beater and insure it all year, have a clean driving record, contact insurance companies and get a 19a policy for your collector cars, just like EVEY other collecter with a classic car has to do in Ontario, wether its right or left hand drive.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone on here tried to call and get insurance on a 20 year old domestic car in Ontario? Good luck. Insurance companies want to insure cars no older than 10 yrs old idealy. I had a hell of a time trying to insure my 1991 EF sedan last year, and I was told that if it were 1 year older they would not have touched it. I also had to have this honda saftied and e-tested befor they would give me insurance, which meant no temporary plate. The car had to be towed to the mechanic. So..... basically what I'm trying to say, is that there needs to be some sort of reform to all insurance in Ontario, or just wait untill you are old enough or experienced enough to enjoy one of these cars with an annual insurance rate thats the same price of most peoples monthly rates!

[Nismoist]

My suggestions for this are as follows:

1. If there is a problem with the ICBC data then identify each point where the data was in error and adjust it if you can or identify it as a deficiency when you are presenting your case.

2. Talk to an actuary if you can, they are the ones who do the math to calculate the risk (and therefore the insurability) and find out from them what makes an effective case, adjust your survey accordingly.

3. Statistically significant data sets are key to generating defensible data. I will see if I can find more info on this tonight (I am at work now).

4. Objective data carries far more weight than subjective. While qualitative/anecdotal information is good for descriptions in reports they should not be considered statistical data.

Your JDM Make/model/spec/year:
Good as is.

Your driving infractions in the last year/ever:
Good as is.

Add: Your driving infractions in the last year/ever in a JDM

Have you ever been in an accident with your JDM
Good as is.

was it the fault of the JDM:
This is quite subjective and difficult to get any useful data from.

Do you feel safe driving a RHD:
Although subjective this is a good idea to keep in.

Have you ever made an insurance claim on your JDM:
Good as is.

Did your insurance company have to provide you with a rental because of lengthy repairs:
Instead of this I would analyze how many parts suppliers are in the area. In addition I would look at some of the popular JDM sites such as TunerLab and RHDJapan and see what estimated delivery times are.

How long do repairs typically take:
This should not be really any different than any other NA sold Japanese manufacturer sports car

Is it easy to get parts for your JDM:
See repairs question above, I would recommend removing this. If you really want to keep it in then I would suggest contacting Daryl at TunerLab and asking what percentage of his orders are for parts that are in stock vs special order.

Do you have a reliable source for parts:
See previous answer.

Is your JDM a target for theft:
There is published car theft data which will be much more defensible than people's opinion. This data can then be cross referenced to the amount of those vehicles registered in Canada.

Do you think your JDM is easy or hard to steal compared to other 15 year old cars:
I think this is too subjective and would recommend removal, instead I would add:
Do you have an alarm with an immobilizer installed?

Please keep in mind that these are suggestions and I encourage you all to provide your own to make this the best possible study.

[RHDskyline]

I send an email. Hope it helps.

i think you should have other questions such as.

age

years driving

years driving RHD

how much we pay for insurance and what kind of coverage.



More specific questions would be more appealing to whomever you are pleading your case too


Just my 2 cents

[love_boost]

Your JDM Make/model/spec/year: Nissan skyline R32 GTS-T 1989
Your driving infractions in the last year/ever: 1 stunting 1 92 in an 80 ( driving a lifted truck with oversize tires)
Have you ever been in an accident with your JDM/was it the fault of the JDM: never
Do you feel safe driving a RHD: driving one for 3 years and never felt unsafe.
Have you ever made an insurance claim on your JDM: nope
Did your insurance company have to provide you with a rental because of lengthy repairs: nope
How long do repairs typically take: depends how much time i have.
Is it easy to get parts for your JDM: easy
Do you have a reliable source for parts: yep 4Xtoys is my hero
Is your JDM a target for theft: never been broken in to or attempted
Do you think your JDM is easy or hard to steal compared to other 15 year old cars: harder since i have a hidden switch for fuel pump and seperate for injector power.

Age 20
Years driving RHD: 3
insurance rate: 1200 for liability.

[Bonsai]

Hi Guys,
I won't be reposting my survey with new questions or adjustments only because I already have so many responses from JDM drivers, driving all manner of JDMs. Feel free to ad your 2cents to your own survey though like I mentioned initially, it will be included when I start making presentations to underwriters.
I had an informal meeting with two guys from Gore Mutual last night who seemed positive and wanted us to make our presentation- Assuming that some underwriter is going to give us good rates for our cars a great number of us would probably start signing policies with them- from the underwriter's point of view it is a great opportunity to corner a niche market.
Anyway, the guys from gore were pretty cool. If anybody else out there could post or e-mail (craig@bonsairides.com) responses in the next few days before we start making presentations that would be a huge help!