Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Problems with R32 import at Detroit/Windsor Bridge. Assistance requested!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Problems with R32 import at Detroit/Windsor Bridge. Assistance requested!

    The purpose of this post is to share the experience I JUST had trying to import my Nov-1989 Skyline GTR and to request the community’s help.

    I apologize in advance for the length. It’s worth the read if you are looking to import. Help me figure out where I went wrong and PLEASE see if you can help me get through this.

    Starting the day (yesterday) in Montreal, Quebec at 9am (Nov 1, 2014), most of the day went very, very smoothly. After finishing up at the SAAQ doing the registration transfer, I was headed out from Montreal by 2pm and, after a stop by a GTR buddy outside of Windsor, got to the Detroit-Windsor Ambassador Bridge by roughly 1am (Nov 2, 2014). I was heading back through Detroit to drop-off another car buddy that had made the trip with me, before I planned to turn south toward home in Atlanta, GA.

    I had done my research (I thought) I had the NHTSA and EPA forms completed and ready. I was also prepared to pay the duty on the vehicle.

    The first officer at the bridge was on the end of a double shift and was determined to make things difficult. It’s probably easiest if I break this up by steps.

    1. He immediately told me, as a "fact", that RHD vehicles were NOT legal in the US. Period. If I even opened my mouth to explain anything I was shut up pretty quickly.

    2. After going into the office, I was told again, by the same officer, that I couldn't import a RHD vehicle. As non-confrontational as I could, I asked why that was and was told that’s the “law”. I asked, “Is there anyone that we can confirm that law with?” To which the condescending (ALL of the answers were in a condescending tone… so I’ll stop using that description) answer given was, “Who do you think we can check with?” I suggested, “That would be a NHTSA law, right?” The answer was, “It doesn't matter what they say… if we don’t approve it you can’t get in.” After which I was told to sit down.

    3. After about 30 minutes of 6 officers searching on-line, they came across the NHTSA “List of Nonconforming Motor Vehicles That Are Eligible For Importation (By Or Through A Registered Importer)” document. A document that I had in my folder… but I didn’t want to come across as presumptuous, so I bit my tongue.

    4. After another 15 minutes or so (and hearing the conversation that the 8-10 officers by that time were having) the RHD issue was gone and not brought up again. (Page 1 of the aforementioned document is a good to have)

    5. At that point another officer (by that time as adversarial as the first guy) asked, “When was the car manufactured?” My answer, “November, 1989… the JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) vehicles of that era didn’t have a manufacture day, only a month and year.” And then I shut up again. Another 15 minutes.

    6. Office 2: “How can you prove to me that it was built in November, 1989?” (In retrospect, this was probably the one major oversight I made… as there’s technically nothing on the vehicle that states Nov-1989… or 1989 at all for that matter. And I didn't have the build month VIN ranges printed out). My answer was, “The can I show you what VINs were produced in what months and that will show the car was built in November 1989.” The response was, “I could tell you it was November of 1991… why should I believe you? If you don’t have something saying it was manufactured in November, then you’re going to have to wait until January to import” I decided not to ask how a car that he could have argued was built in November of 1991 could be imported in 2015… at that point I was convinced that it didn’t matter what I did. The two officers in particular had made such a scene in front of their co-workers that there was no way I was going to be driving the car into Detroit, regardless of the facts. My response was something to the effect of, “I don’t know what to say to that. I suppose you could say that but I’m not sure why you would.”

    7. Officers 1 & 2 and another 4-5 “senior” officers went into a back room to “discuss”. Interestingly enough the 2-3 “junior” officers still out in the waiting room were just short of being apologetic. But they didn't (couldn't) do anything to affect an outcome. The committee met for another 15-20 minutes.

    8. Officer 2 came out and called me up. “You’re going to need to get a title saying that you own the car” (apparently my SAAQ registration paperwork wasn't good enough because, “I don’t speak French” and “You should have a title”) and “You’re going to need something from the manufacture in Japan saying that this car was built in November, 1989”

    So, there’s my story. I’m not presumptuous enough to think that there’s nothing I could have done differently or better. But right now the main thing would have been going to a different border crossing.
    Here’s what I’m asking for advice on.

    1. For the month/year issue, would it be possible to get someone to run a VIN lookup on my car and send me a PDF or other format that I can print out? Preferably any sort of report that has official Nissan info on it.
    The VIN is – BNR32-003088

    2. With regards to needing the title, has in a similar position (and you get my condolences if you've been there) had success with their bill of sale and/or “Evaluation Pour Calcul De Taxes De Vente Seulement” This 2nd document is a third-party form by an evaluator used for payment of the taxes during registration.

    I appreciate any advice. If you are in a position to send me any documentation that you think may help, you can send that to niclas.willems@gmail.com

    Thank you!

  • #2
    First off, if you didn't get a Japanese deregistration certificate both original and a certified translated copy, you needed to take your Canadian bill of sale and make sure it was in English. CBP does not accept documentation in a foreign language, PERIOD. Go get that bill of sale translated and notarized and why don't you have a title again? You should also have gotten a temporary conveyance type document from Canadian DMV that says that the car has been deregistered for export to the US along with a Canadian title that lists the year of manufacture for the car. A Canadian title doesn't list month but that doesn't matter as if the month/year of manufacture can't be determined, the the date of first registration works in lieu. Find the relevant details on importing from the CBP website and print it out.

    To prove the date of manufacture, go to a Nissan dealership or anyone else that has access to Nissan FAST software and print out what it says about your chassis number. There's info on epc-data.com that proves the manufacture date but I don't know if CBP will accept that. Here's the link for your car: http://nissan.epc-data.com/skyline/b...o=BNR32-003088

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you for the info.

      Per the SAAQ (http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/index.php) the slip of paper is the only official document that is ever associated with ownership and registration of the vehicle. I've got that and the bill of sale (in English), along with the temporary transport registration paperwork allowing for transport of the vehicle.

      On the month/year, I'm aware of the FAST system and was looking to see if someone could generate the paperwork needed for proving build month. I'm working on that locally in Windsor... just sucks that today is Sunday.

      I'm hoping to have all this together in the next hour and trying again. Thanks again and I'll report back here. I was just hoping to highlight some of the possible issues for any of my R32 importing brethren. So often all of the information focuses on the "25 year law" part as it pertains to the NHTSA and EPA forms that we (I) overlooked some basic items.

      Comment


      • #4
        So these were not US Customs officials you were dealing with? The first person to have one in the states brought an 89 in New Years night of this year. I just hope this is not going to become the norm.

        Comment


        • #5
          I wouldn't even mention month of manufacturing unless they ask. There is no way to show with either a canadian or US ownership/registration/or gtr vin plate. They will probably gloss over it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hope everything works out ok. I've been in similar situations bringing cars into Canada. Seems like it's just luck of the draw with who you get and how their feeling that day. If you haven't tried crossing again yet maybe give port Huron border a call. They've always been easy to get in touch with on the phone and very helpful when I've called. Maybe they could offer up some info to make the process easier at the detroit crossing. Keep us posted!

            Comment


            • #7
              Also, to save you any more aggravation and grief from ignorant border officers, here are the relevant links you can print out confirming that there are no regulations for RHD vehicle importation:






              EDIT: Oops, I see you had that base already covered.
              Last edited by kabob; 11-03-2014, 03:28 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you all for the advice and well wishing. I'm back in Atlanta with Godzilla parked in my garage. I'll share Part 2 with you all and give you some suggestions based on my experience.

                After getting a few hours of sleep, I woke up Sunday determined to get through the border. I was able to get a print out from FAST that had my specific vehicle listed. Also, I got a scanned copy of the Nissan GTR Owner's Bible page that shows the ranges of VINs per month/year. Short of getting an official letter from Nissan, I felt this was my best bet. I also was able to confirm that the small business card sized paper I had gotten in Montreal was the registration AND title. That's in French, but the official SAAQ transaction receipt was in English. Again, I felt that was the best I was going to be able to do.

                I got back the border at about 6pm. Although there was nobody there from the night before, the VERY FIRST guy that we pulled up to started with the same, "You aren't going to be able to import that RHD car." Well... 45 minutes later I was driving into Detroit.

                Here's my advice:

                1. Don't fight. These are US Border Patrol officers. They deal with liars and a-holes all day, every day. Their personality simply is what it is. If you get a bad officer... well, just deal with it respectfully and understand that, IF HE DOESN'T WANT YOU TO COME THROUGH YOU WILL NOT BE COMING THROUGH. It's sad, but it doesn't matter if the law is on your side. I guess the border patrol office sits in sort of a lawless limbo word between countries. At the end of the first visit I just asked, "What can I bring back that will allow you gentlemen to import my car?" And then I made a legitimate effort to get those things.

                2. This is obviously based on my experience... but I'd suggest making the crossing when there is a normal amount of border traffic. The first time, at 2am, there was nobody coming through. So, the first officer made the statement and then FOLLOWED ME INTO THE OFFICE and kept up his negative and berating behavior. He quickly became a cancer in the attitudes of the other officers. So there were 8-12 border agents and ALL of them were working on my case. By the time a few people starting coming through, the damage had been done. During my 2nd attempt, at about 6pm, border traffic was moderate. So even though the first guy had the potential to be a similar sort of negative influence... HE HAD TO STAY OUTSIDE AND KEEP "GREETING" CARS. I went into the office, met the "welcoming" (sign in) officer and was pointed to "that guy" who "handles all imports". For the next 40 minutes, he was the only officer I dealt with. He had to go to the station captain a few times... but based on the questions he had for me, I knew we were progressing in the right direction. Heck, he even apologized about 30 minutes in for "how long" this was taking. I didn't need ANY of the additional paperwork that I can prepared with. I literally only presented exactly the same paperwork from the night before.

                The main thing to remember is, THIS IS LEGAL TO DO. If you get a bad officer you may start to doubt yourself. The only paperwork you really NEED is the NHTSA and EPA forms, and there will be another form (Entry Summary) that you'll be given at the border. Don't worry about researching that one... it's super easy to fill out. And I don't get the feeling that you can come with one pre-filled out. However... be prepared with all of the other paperwork. Title, bill of sale, FAST printout, proof of insurance. All of the things that you normally think about during a "normal" vehicle transaction... but that may be easy to forget when you're focusing on the import. Having those things will help your confidence level and, if requested, demonstrate that you are prepared and know what you're doing.

                If anyone has any specific questions please let me know. If you don't feel like posting it, just message or email me.

                Thanks again for all of the advice!

                Comment


                • #9
                  SFitter... I was tempted to leave Windsor and head to Sarnia/Port Huron and try again. I had entered through that border on Friday and had that "feeling" that it would be a better border to go through.

                  However, the conspiracy theorist in me decided to not attempt that. While the logical part of me knows that they aren't going to post my mug shot on the wall of every US/Canada border post... I didn't want to risk going back through with no additional documentation.

                  In retrospect, I probably could have driven the mile north to the tunnel, tried again, and gotten right through.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    kabob... I had the info on the 2nd link printed out. It was brutal listening to the officers spend 30 minutes finding that, misunderstanding it, and then finally understanding it.

                    A print-out of the first link would be good to include in your paperwork packet. The RHD info on the "LIST OF NONCONFORMING MOTOR VEHICLES CAPABLE OF BEING MODIFIED BY A REGISTERED IMPORTER" is a little vague. A logical person would come to the correct understanding... but it doesn't spell it out. Even the answer in the FAQ could be vague...

                    "A motor vehicle that was not originally manufactured to comply with all applicable FMVSS, and/or was not so certified by its original manufacturer, in the form of a label permanently affixed to the vehicle, cannot be lawfully imported into the U.S. unless it is determined eligible for importation by NHTSA."

                    The "unless it is determined eligible for importation by NHTSA" should be enough.

                    Unless I'm missing a more obvious answer on that

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wow, what a read. Glad you finally brought her home. Congrats.

                      "Life's too short to drive boring cars!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think there's something in the water around detroit/buffalo border crossings. I tried to visit the states in a GTR bought in Ontario so I could do a shortcut route back to Alberta and they took one look and said "that's not coming over". Sat in the office and was treated like a lower life form for an hour and they couldn't tell me what I needed to come across with this car. They eventually told me they were denying me entry because they thought I'd be street racing with it lol. Looking back at it now I could have probably got across at a different border crossing with less attitude.
                        BNR32, AE86, MX73(project for sale), RN130

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Did you drive the car home or did you trailer it? And was the car bone stock? Did they hassle you about any modifications that may have been done?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I drove it straight back to Atlanta that night. No issues the entire drive. The car is fairly stock. The entire drivetrain is stock... the only mods are suspension related.

                            The only "mod" I expected possible issues with was the spare transmission in my trunk. (Figured better to haul one down in case I end up needing it vs eventually shipping one from Canada.) But they didn't even mention it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I know you said your drivetrain is stock, but did they pop of the hood and look? Every car I have found in Canada seems to at least have pod air filters and an exhaust.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X