Cost of Tracking a Car?

[raijin-xiii]

Hey guys! Well, spring/summer is coming up soon more or less, and I've been watching all these track vids all over the place and I'm dying to try it out!

Anyway, I've found a little track meeting thing or whatever (http://touge.ca/index2.htm my guess is as good as yours as to why they call themselves togue...), and my friend(s) and I think it looks like fun.

The downside to all this is the money issue... I really don't even know how much I'd have to pump into a summer of tracking the GTR. I'd probably not go so many times a week or even a month since I live a bit away from any tracks listed there as far as I know, so I'm just looking for basics here.

Anyway, personally, I'm curious about race fuel, tires, etc here. Insurance could be another thing...
- is there any insurance a 19 year-old can get if I get a beater for a dd and part-time/track the GTR?
- how much would that be?
- how fast do you go through tires?
- what mods should I invest in before tracking it (besides keeping it top-maint)?
- are there any driving/track/racing classes/schools/whatever that you recommend prior to track activity?

This is just me asking personalized questions, but for everyone else, feel free to hijack this thread with your own questions! I'm sure we've got some seasoned track freaks on here that will help us out.

Thanks in advance! :drive:

Chris.

[Brendan]

There are a lot of southern Ontario track days posted on SON (www.son240sx.org)... it's a 240 forum but there are a bunch of guys with Skylines since it's so active. Depending when/where the track day is, there have been some days as cheap as $80, but some go up to a few hundred per day for the better tracks.

There isn't any insurance for track cars, that is to say you aren't covered if you crash on the track, but you can still have insurance on it for regular street driving.

[Skym]

It's cheaper to buy a lower powered trackcar that someone else has built -

http://www.racecarsonly.com/

With Skyline trackcars, make sure these area's are checked off -

1.) Change all fluids before and after trackdays.

2.) Fit a fire extinguisher, as engine bay fires can happen. Sometimes this can be due to old fuel lines, etc coming loose when thrashing car, so make sure they are new and secured properly. Other times it can be due to engine failure.

3.) Fit a fixed harness, as you'll get thrown around in the drivers seat without a harness. Can get bruises, etc without a harness.

4.) Fit a baffle plate in the sump to help with preventing oil starvation (will need to remove engine to remove sump with GTR). Also fit a Accusump tank which supply's oil if pickup in sump is starved of oil. This is very important if you thrash the car.

5.) Fit a air to oil engine oilcooler as a minimum cooling mod. Core size is worked out via engine hp, oilpump flow.

6.) Check tyre pressures. Look at tread wear, like too much wear in middle of tyre = too high tyre pressures. Wear on both shoulders of tyres means the tyre pressures are too low.

7.) Visually inspect bushes and if cracked, replace them. Also check for loose hub bearings (left side hubbearing on a Skyline is known to fail) and replace if necessary.

8.) Fit steel wheeled turbo's and tune ECU to suit with safe A/F ratio's.

9.) Fit swaybars, shocks, springs, strut braces and lock HICAS. You'll probably find this area needs attention after your first trackday.

10.) Make sure you have a good quality helmet.

11.) Make sure you have car aligned.

12.) Make sure brakes, brakepads are up to standard. Fit some racing spec pads (high temp), as road spec brakepads (low temp) are not designed for racetrack and you could get brake fade. Drain, fill brake resouvoir with I think was 5.1? brake fluid or DOT 4 brake fluid.

Tyre wise, there are different compounds. Softer compund wears faster, but there's more grip. Harder compound wears slower, but there's less grip. Brand wise, there's Dunlop, Bridgestone semi or full slicks.

[raijin-xiii]

Ugh I knew this was gonna get moved into Motorsports because there's only like 5 threads there, so I didn't want to make it sound very skyline-specific but ok lol.

That looks like a good list, Skym! Sounds like a crapload of work. Hey Brendan, wanna track-ready our cars together? But I don't think I quite have a budget to slap on new turbos or anything haha.

[Skym]

I mentioned steel exhaust wheel turbo's, because exhaust temps rise on the racetrack. Ceramic exhaust wheels don't like high exhaust temps. As far as I know it's something to do with the glue that holds exhaust wheel to shaft, which breaks down with high exhaust temps and makes exhaust wheel go off balance. When really off balance, it can snap shaft and go down exhaust system.

Safe A/F ratio can drop engine, exhaust temps.

This link below has info on sump baffle mod -

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/e114_RB_oillube.html

The Accusump and Accusump turbo-oiler -

http://www.livermoreperformance.com/canton_accusump.html

With brakes, can add braided brake lines for better brake pedal feel and brake stopper to stop brake master cylinder moving under hard braking. Also slotted rotors help.

[superdaveosbourne]

Skym has a great list to start things off. One point on the brakes / fluid. 5.1 or DOT4 might not be enough; I had DOT4 fluid for my first track day and it boiled in about 5 laps at Shannonville, switch to Motul RBF 600, problem solved. Slotted are the way to go, cross drilled will crack. Maybe not the first time you go to the track, but they will eventually. Might as well get some good quality slotted rotors (Endless, StopTech, etc.).

As for tires, it depends on how many track days you go to, how hard you drive at the track, etc. I went to 2 track days and multiple drag nights at Shonnonville last year, let's just say that I need new rubber now, bad...

[fastbmw7]

With regards to the fixed seat belts;it is not a good idea to be firmly strapped in the vehicle unless the car is fitted with some form of roll over protection (i.e. roll bar or cage).The idea being, in the event of a rollover, the roof could compress and crush the occupants who are still seated bolt upright in the seats due to being firmly fixed in the seat by the 4 or 5 point harness.
As your speeds and skill increase, a dedicated set of track brake pads is a good investment and one of the best ways to improve the car's track performance. Do not forget to invest in a good brain bucket (helmet) as well.
Let us know what you sign up for! The local chapter of the BMW or Porsche club usually put on an excellent Driving School.

[SpartanAir]

Do a search on "PDC" or "Performance Driver's Club", the local chapter here in Vancouver put on some great track days last year. Their first one is in April I believe. You might find my picture posts from there too, I did one track day on a sunny day and one when it was pissing rain...it was awesome!

I had SO much fun tracking my GTR, you learn SO much, especially with that group because you have someone come out with you and teach you how and when to turn into corners, brake, accelerate out etc...you learn alot real fast!

But part of the reason I just sold my GTR was that I decided I couldn't afford what comes with tracking your car often, as much as I REALLY wanted to. My car was too nice to not drive everyday, so having a beater DD just wasn't gonna work for me. And that list of stuff Skym just said, alot of those upgrades cost SERIOUS $$$.

In a perfect world, I could keep my GTR, drive it every once in a while, do all the mods I want to it, track it regularly, and maintain it properly after all that...but I decided I have other places I should be putting my money right now.

I'm not done with Skylines yet, down the road I see things changing, and I can afford myself an R34

But if tracking your car is what you really really wanna do, then go for it...but at 19, without a really well paying job, it doesn't leave room to do much else.

Not trying to scare you, that's just the reality I soon learned. :-D

[fastbmw7]

Also, bear in mind that when first starting out, it is totally unnecessary to go all out with the modification bug.
A safe, basic prepared car is all you need. Your speeds at the first or second driving school will be slow enough that a stock prepared car is more than enough. (People have showed up to HPDEs in rental cars. My first school, a fellow was there in a Neon that he rented from Dollar Rent a Car).
Stock street tires will not chunk at your first school. Stock (newish) brake pads will work although a higher performance set would be recommended with cooling ducts, even at your first school.
I had the ability to turn down the boost on my first few schools, so I did just that. Shift no higher than 7500 rpms and your car will be just fine.
I am running open lapping days by this point and still do not have an oil cooler (although still with reduced boost) with a set of race compound brake pads and the car delivers yeoman service lap after lap after lap all day long.
Now, the costs are breathtaking, to be honest. Factor in that I must transport my car several hundred miles to get to a track, the transport truck's copious thirst for fuel, the Skyline's thirst for fuel that is frankly biblical, plus the price of quality brake pads and it is indeed, not an inexpensive weekend out to the track.
I've only gotten started;but I will stop here. You will have many questions. Ask away!

[Skym]

I see. Is it one of those follow the leader type trackdays??? If so, the advice above is good advice.

The problems I've listed above is what some have encountered when pushing car hard for a good laptime at a trackday with mild to highly modified daily driven cars with road tyres or semislicks. Some non private trackdays include racecars testing their setups, etc.

Also the cars with oil starvation problems were running higher than normal boost levels, so the advice about turning boost down is good advice.

[fastbmw7]

The basic recomendations would apply to a novice starting out at an HPDE.
I absolutely agree that as the skill/speeds increase, all of the engine, suspension, and tire suggestions will most certainally apply.
The lapping days I am participating in are unlimited speed, passing with a point-by anywhere on the track, and drive as many laps as one's wallet allows. I also forgot to mention that in lieu of an aftermarket oil windage tray, I add one extra litre of oil to the sump and watch the oil temps like a hawk. These startegies have served me well in my GTR that has done probably over 3000 km of track lapping. I have not fitted slicks or even soft compound DOT R tires so the cornering limits will be reduced respectively. (My last set were RA 1's.)
Maybe I have been foolhardy or just plain lucky, but so far, no problems ever related to oil starvation.
This is at venues that have hairpin corners, fast sweepers, and quick transition chicanes.
Regardless, it can be a very slippery slope in terms of expenditure as one gets hooked on these events, and believe me, you will!
I still recommend that attending your first HPDE does not require a lot of modification to the car as you will not be going super,crazy, happy fast, even by the end of the weekend.
Cheers!

[bignate]

I wont lie to ya, tracking a GTR is expensive, but IMO worth every penny.

Brakes should be the #1 priority when getting a car "track ready". Personally I wouldnt even attempt to track a GTR without at least a high end fluid, aggressive pads, and probly some stainless lines. When I took my GTR to the track the first time I had totally OEM brakes and had SCARY amounts of fluid and pad fade. I killed a brand new set of oem pads to the metal in one day.


I probly go through at least a set of tires per season but it really depends on your driving style and number of events.

Oil coolers are a very necessary upgrade but you can get by without one for awhile if you watch your temps and dont stay out too long. Try to avoid running too heavy of oil to compensate for the lack of an oil cooler because that can cause its own set of problems as well. Overfilling the oil pan is also a good idea to help prevent oil starvation at high G's.


I dont recommend running race gas at all unless your car is set up for it. It will clog your cat and kill your O2's pretty quick.


One thing you will notice with Ontario tracks is, with the exception of Mosport, extra power wont make you much faster. On the tight tracks we have around here good handling is the key to being quick.

If you ever wanna come check out a track day you are more than welcome to come cruise down with me, and that goes for anybody. IM DYING TO SEE MORE GTR'S OUT AT THE TRACK!!!!!

[fastbmw7]

Also, it is tempting to become obsessed with making MORE POWER!! In all honesty, making more horsepower or torque should be the last item on the list. The dollars spent on more coaching will net far more gains in terms of lap times than bolting on more horsepower ever will, unless you are already the second coming of Senna.
Thoughtful engine mods aimed at keeping the engine safe and alive are the way to happiness and longevity.(I.E. engine and differential oil coolers, windage control, etc)
Sticky tires on a novice's car are some instructor's worst nightmare but brake pads and good fluid are always best practice.Ask opinions on brake pads and you will get a different answer for every person asked. And don't believe that Bigger Brakes are the be all to end all. The stock set up with good pads, slotted rotors, steel brake lines, and cooling ducts produce pretty fantastic stopping for our heavy cars.
It's addicting and makes you feel alive!

[bignate]

It's addicting and makes you feel alive!

could not agree more

[SpartanAir]

could not agree more

I second that