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Suspension set-up and alignment specs

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  • #16
    Pick up a copy of Caroll Smith's "Engineer in Your Pocket" (And really the whole "... To Win" series would be a good idea too)
    It is a little flip book and if you read it one way it tells you PROBLEMS and what the CAUSE is.
    If you read it the other way it tells you the CAUSE and what the PROBLEMS are.

    Has sections for chassis setup/alignment/shocks/springs/ARBs



    Here's some info from it:

    Front toe-in: too much
    - car darts over bumps, under heavy braking and during corner entry/is generally unstable
    - car won't point into corneres, or, if extreme, may point in very quickly and then dart and wash out

    Front toe-out: too much
    - car wanders under heavy braking and may be somewhat unstable in a straight line, especially in response to single wheel or diagonal bumps and/or wind gusts
    - car may point into corners and then refuse to take a set
    - if extreme will cause understeer tire drag in long corners

    Rear toe-in: too little
    - power on oversteer during corner exit

    Rear toe-in: too much
    - rear feels light and unstable during corner entry. car slides through corners rather than rolling freely

    Rear toe-out: any
    - power oversteer during corner exit and (maybe) in a straight line
    - straight line instability

    Front wheel castor or trail: too little
    - car too sensitive to steering (twitchy)
    - too little steering feel and feedback

    Front wheel castor or trail: too much
    - excessive physical steering effort accompanied by too much self return action and transmittal of road shocks to driver's hands
    - general lack of sensitivity to steering input due to excessive force required

    Front wheel castor or trail: uneven
    - steering effort harder in one direction than in the other
    - car will "pull" towards the side with the less castor - good on ovals, bad on road courses

    Camber: too much negative
    - inside of tire excessively hot and/or wearing too rapidly. at the front this will show up as reduced braking capability and at the rear as reduced acceleration capability. depending on the track and characteristics of the tire, inside tire temperature should usually be 10-25*f hotter than the outside.

    Camber: not enough negative
    - outside of tire will be hot and waering. this should never be and is almost always caused by running static positive camber at the rear in an effort to prevent the generation of excessive negative camber under the influence of download at high speed.

    - a better solution is improved geometry and increased spring rate. dynamic positive camber will always degrade rear tire performance and if extreme, can cause braking instability and/or corner exit oversteer
    Then there's some stuff on bump steer, bla bla bla. Most of this stuff is generic, some may be different with a 4WD vehicle (parts about reduced accel... in our case it would be excessive front wheel engagement).

    Make sure you invest in a good contact type pyrometer and a good tire pressure gauge.
    Race. Win. Live.

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    • #17
      front toe out increase initiale turn in, while going straight before weight is transfered to the outside wheel, mostly in the situation were a change of direction is needed, then, the wheel with most of the grip (outside wheel) is already ''sticking out'' in that direction


      basically, toe in front or rear, forces the tires inward, making the car a little more stable in a straight line, rear toe in will greatly help stability at higher speeds when less weight over the rear axle makes the car unstable, the toe in will force it inward

      toe out makes the car more twitchy, ready to change direction quickly, but less stable because of that

      and yes the first part about rear camber refers to cornering
      sigpic

      [links to all chapters in first post]

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      • #18
        Thx for the input guys.

        I'll need to do a bit more reading on front toe out.

        Tuning cornering stability with AWD torque split control is very cool. Get suspension stuff sorted and then balance over/understeer from the driver's seat.

        A cool RCE article actually puts the differential equations together describing cornering stability. As soon as I saw the Front Torque and Rear Torque terms I understood why my torque split controller was such a great mod.

        Cheers,
        Dan
        sigpic
        The Beaumont Connection

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        • #19
          Great thread guys! I should have some info to add once i get my car lined up and around the track a few times. The GTR is a bit of an oddball when it comes to suspension setup because it doesnt react like its awd, rwd or fwd. Its really its own type of animal.

          From my observations tracking the car the last few years I would prefer the car to oversteer a bit more. Using the loud pedal to help the car turn in suits my driving style quite well. I think I need to add a stiffer rear sway and some spherical links to go with my nice shiny new multi-link setup.

          Pyrometer is a great idea can anybody make any suggestions on one?

          Also, if anybody here happens to run Toyo R888's on their car have you noticed that they are extremely picky about what pressure you run them at?

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          • #21


            For the win.

            http://www.tequipment.net/WahlHSI3001.html if you were wondering about price.

            Dan
            sigpic
            The Beaumont Connection

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            • #22
              I remember reading that issue and being like:

              And then looking up the prices online and being like:
              Race. Win. Live.

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              • #23
                My suspension is:

                Nismo Front Upper Link Brackets
                Nismo Front Upper Links
                Nismo Front Tension Rods
                Nismo Front Transverse Links
                Nismo Rear Upper Arm Front
                Nismo Rear Upper Arm Rear
                Nismo Rear A-Arm
                HKS Hipermax II Coilovers

                Camber: 2.18 degrees
                Caster: 5.12 degrees
                Toe: 0.0 degrees
                RightDrive Inc. Parts Manager
                http://www.rightdrive.ca :: http://www.rightdriveparts.com :: http://www.rightdriveusa.com
                1970 Highway 7 West, Vaughan, ON :: 1-877-398-8220



                Comment


                • #24
                  Originally posted by Daryl @ TunerLab.jp View Post
                  My suspension is:

                  Nismo Front Upper Link Brackets
                  Nismo Front Upper Links
                  Nismo Front Tension Rods
                  Nismo Front Transverse Links
                  Nismo Rear Upper Arm Front
                  Nismo Rear Upper Arm Rear
                  Nismo Rear A-Arm
                  HKS Hipermax II Coilovers

                  Camber: 2.18 degrees
                  Caster: 5.12 degrees
                  Toe: 0.0 degrees
                  I really hope you mean your camber is -2.18 degrees.

                  Comment


                  • #25
                    Sydneykid in Aus recommended settings. He's a race car suspension guy with alot of experience in skylines. These are street/occasional track settings.

                    GTS-t

                    Ride Height 350mm (guard to center of wheel)
                    Front Castor +7 (much as you can get, think my car maxed out at +6)
                    Front Camber -1.0
                    Rear Camber -0.5
                    Front Toe 0 each side
                    Rear Toe 2mm in each side

                    GTR

                    Ride Height 355mm (guard to center of wheel)
                    Front Castor +5 (or more, much as you can get)
                    Front Camber -1.0
                    Rear Camber -0.5
                    Front Toe 0 each side
                    Rear Toe 2mm in each side

                    I'm thinking some of you guys are going to be chewing through your tires pretty quick running all that camber and toe on the street.

                    In general you want toe out in front (helps turn in) and toe in rear (increases stability). Toe out in the rear sounds a little suicidal, especially if you've got more than stock power.

                    Also, if your ride height is lower than the recommendations above you're just screwing up your suspension geometry and reducing grip.
                    '91 GTS-t 4dr IMPUL R32-R

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