Who tracks there car and what's your set up

[MarusGTR]

You don't want running shoes or a cushiony sole. I was swiftly corrected by my last instructor at Tremblant (Chief instructor for the BMW Club of America) to loose my runners. Chuck Taylor's are a cheap alternative but a proper driving shoe like ones by Puma or Alpinestars is recommended.
The result is better feel for heel-toe shifting and better brake application & feel.

Well you make me feel less of a loser for still religiously using my old sloppy shoes with the GTR, the same ones I tracked with you. The ones which looked like a decade old handmedown from a bum.

I really lucked out with those shoes, though I have to glue back the paper-thin sole each season and now they're unravelling at some of the seams. All wear and tear from driving the GTR, one side with a clutch baldspot, the other on the heel and toe .

[ZimDoc]

I know I'm a new one to the forum but I have spent many years at the track and building cars but haven't had a chance to build a R32 yet.

Big things as others said are tire's, brakes and a proper alignment. It doesn't even need to be corner balanced yet.

Tires depending on your driver skill and experience on track at this time I'd stick to RS3 (handles heat very well), Dunlop Z2 (Very good in wet and decent heat, doesn't like high surface temps) and the RE-11R (On the expensive side of things but are very good). I wouldn't even think about R-comps (NT01, R888, etc.) or even DOT slicks (Hoosier R6, Maxxis RC-1, etc). They required a different driving style and a honed driver to work very well. Also using a very sticky tire in the beginning can mast bad driving habits and causing massive problems down the road.

Brakes are a tough one. Most people say go with a BBK or get massive rotors and calipers. This does work for races teams and some people but you must understand why they do this. Race teams run metallic pads and massive rotors to control temp. By controlling temp (1600*F temps) you can have your brakes last longer. Most BBK you buy come with decent street pads but treble track pads that have a poor temp range. Best suggestion is to have a set of track pads that are on the aggressive side that you swap at the track or before. Rotor size depends on if you have brake ducting, length of race and max wheel size. We run 380's on our 25hr of Thunderhill car because we can't afford pitting for a brake pad change. Suggestions for track dedicated pads are dependent on tire choice. Your brakes only work as well as your tires can grip. But using the RS3's or tires around there try the PFC-06's to begin with then switch to Cobalt XR-3's or XR-2's if you want some more bite. Forewarning though, most brake pads the have been around for some time haven't updated the compound used in many years. There are better pads out you just need to get out of your comfort zone and try it for yourself.

Last part is a proper alignment. Being the alignment guy for BMW racers and Porsche cup cars even a simple alignment that can be used on the street/track will be better then most of the beginner to advance drivers car. The spec's you use can change depending on your driving style. The biggest part for getting a good alignment is have the car respond the same in both left and right hand turns. If the car turns great for left hands but under-steers for right handers you as a driver can't trust the car and the connection you rely on goes away.

Now that's just the tip of the ice berg but the other stuff will come later.

[bobbo]

^^^ That's some good/helpful information. Thanks for that.
Perhaps you could expand on what you were saying about tires. I started running the 1st gen Dunlops and completely agree with what you say about how they don't like heat. I switched to RS3s and love them. This year I had planned to run separate street tires (likely the new Dunlop Z11s as the RS3s are weak in the wet) and R6s for the track. Also different brake pad compounds for street and track.
How is the additional grip with R comps going to effect how I drive the car? I expected I would've been able to brake later/deeper, carry more corner speed and get on the power sooner. It seems fairly simple if my nerves will allow.
My goal is to drop 1.5 (off of a 1:18.3) seconds of my current lap time which would make me (I believe) the quickest street driven car at my home track.

[ZimDoc]

I will expand more on tires choices and reasons behind them later but to get the big point across I will start with this using a consent vehicle and just swap a "Driver" out.

Base vehicle will be a 997 Porsche Cup car. Uses Mich or Pirelli slicks. First driver is a winning club racer (We won't bring pro's into this), wins his class every year and uses the car to its limits. Runs fast lap times and can feel when a set of slicks are starting to heat cycle out.

Next driver is someone who is say a Time trial driver, working to get his racing license and is pretty fast. Problem is he runs 2 seconds slower then the first driver. Why? His 10/10 is only 7/10's to the fast guy. He feels the car well but his steering, throttle and braking inputs are still rough. He says the rear of the car feels lose and is always fighting wheel spin. Big thing is his lap times stay consistent through the whole life of the slick. He's using the car well but isn't smooth/pushing that last bit. Maybe he's using to much steering input on corner exit, too much brake into a corner, etc, etc. The list can go on.

Last guy is a DE3 driver. Some times drives in the advance group but doesn't need an instructor in the car any more. Lap times are within 5 seconds of each other but complains the car understeers and oversteers randomly on different corners but says he can come into a few corners with "Amazing slip angle and just POWEERRRRR out of it so fast.". Some times have decent lap times but can't do back to back lap times for a full 20mins. His biggest problem is he's getting over whelmed and can't hit is brake, turn in, and throttle points but some corners the vehicles set up and tires are saving him from big spins or understanding he is over slowing the vehicle or not maintaining speed through corners to be fast.

This is why during my driving carrier as a DE4/Instructor driver I could keep up with my friends running R-comps with more power when I was running street Dunlop StarSpec's (Btw both E36 M3's just minor changes between the few cars). I was smoother and could apply the throttle sooner because I felt the car and knew the limits of the tires. Not saying I was perfect because I blew through some braking zones or did massive power slides through slow speed corners but the biggest thing is I found how to be smooth going some what slow speed wise so when I changed to R-comps and slicks I knew how the limit of the car felt instead of finding the limits with r-comps and slicks by spinning off track at excessive speed.

[Redone]

This is awesome. Thanks Zimdoc. Keep it coming.

[ZimDoc]

^^^ That's some good/helpful information. Thanks for that.
Perhaps you could expand on what you were saying about tires. I started running the 1st gen Dunlops and completely agree with what you say about how they don't like heat. I switched to RS3s and love them. This year I had planned to run separate street tires (likely the new Dunlop Z11s as the RS3s are weak in the wet) and R6s for the track. Also different brake pad compounds for street and track.
How is the additional grip with R comps going to effect how I drive the car? I expected I would've been able to brake later/deeper, carry more corner speed and get on the power sooner. It seems fairly simple if my nerves will allow.
My goal is to drop 1.5 (off of a 1:18.3) seconds of my current lap time which would make me (I believe) the quickest street driven car at my home track.

Going from streets to r-comps or even semi slicks (R6's and such) you can brake later, get on the throttle even earlier and depending on tire size (running a small or wide tire) you can change how aggressive your turn in is.

Also something I didn't get into is how the different tires are built. Street tires have more steel belts for strength but if you overheat them due to understeer, over aggressive braking, big power slides they don't cool down as fast. Once I over heated my StarSpec's I had to wait 20mins before going back out. It sucked but forced me to focus on controlling the vehicle. This is good and bad but that also depends if you are trying to do Time Attack or an enduro pace.

R-comps have less steel and nylon belts in them. This allows for a lower weight (rotating mass) and if you do over heat the tires it only takes half to a full lap driving at a reduced speed to cool them off. Also their rubber compound is sticker but each tire has its sweet spot it likes to work in. Some tires like less camber, some like an excessive amount because it can use it, some don't like being slid at all, some require you to "saw" at the wheel mid corner to keep it together, some are fastest right before they cord and a few like being thrown into a corner then grabbing after rotating the vehicle. Good thing is most of the good tires are just that. They perform great and are decent on pricing. The go to R-comp these days is the Nitto NT-01. They love high exterior temps and can even work in 30*F if they don't frost over. They do not need shaving and are fastest right before heat cycling out. Problem is once they heat cycle out they are DONE. I ran the Toyo R888 because of a tire account but now have switched over to the NT-01.

For our high hp straight line cars (1000+hp) we love the R888. Best "street" tire out there that can handle up to 1200RWHP in 3rd but thats something we can go over later.

Now semi slicks to racing slicks. Even less belts used in the tire. First negative of them, they can be damaged very easy even by jumping curbs or touching body work. Pro - THEY ARE AWESOME. Huge amount of grip and can recover from being overheated within a few corners. Allows you to run aggressive alignments, brake very late, throttle on very early, sharp turn in and easy control mid corners. Con - Some only last 6 hours of driving on them before falling off (1-3 seconds slower) and they cord very fast. Like the R-comps each tire has there own style of driving they work best in and temp range they like. Just gotta find the one that works for you.

But for your case if you are ready to move to R-comps or semi slicks try a set of NT-01's for a season and see how they treat you. Please buy them new, buying used tires always puts a sour taste in my mouth after seeing a friend buy 3 complete sets to cord all 3 in one weekend on a DE4 car. Now if a friend has a set of Hoosier R6's and you know the exact heat cycles on them sure. Buy or borrow them from him after the 8th heat cycle and have fun.

They "should" last around a full season (6-10 weekends, 2 days per weekend) depending on how many heat cycles you put into them. Glad to see you having two sets of pads, it makes everything easier but don't forget to upgrade your brake fluid. Skip Super Blue or Gold and get at least Motul 600 or something on the same level.

Something that helped me a ton is moving into Time Trails. It is a timed event with 1st, 2nd and 3rd places. It puts a little pressure on you but something needs to push a driver to become faster or you "plateau" pretty badly. You can add video and a in car lap timer to find if you are fast in some corners or using to much steering inputs or to little. Also its a different driving style. Its not like a race trying to protect corner entry or exit its all about pure speed. Getting the most out of the vehicle and pushing yourself for a best time.

[bobbo]

Why do you recommend the NT-01s? My plan was to buy 2 sets of RS-6s at $400/set. That total is about the same as 1 set of new NT-01s.

You mentioned "time trials" as a means of pushing yourself to improve. I compete in Time Attack and (I apologize for sounding like I'm bragging) I haven't placed anything less than 1st. That being said I've missed 2 events. 1 I would've placed 2nd to a tuned 2012 GTR that ran a ridiculous time and the other event I missed (REGRETFULLY) would've included 2 E36 M3 track cars. That would've been excellent competition. I had played with on in the past and on the straights I ate the M3 but he was on slicks so I ended up cooking my RS3s trying to unsuccessfully compete with his corner speed.

[Black BNR32]

Zimdoc, What tires did you use on that early 2000s Ford Windstar?

[bobbo]

Zimdoc, What tires did you use on that early 2000s Ford Windstar?

What does that have to do with anything?

[Dragon Humper]

Zimdoc, What tires did you use on that early 2000s Ford Windstar?

Quote of the day.


Jon.

[ZimDoc]

Why do you recommend the NT-01s? My plan was to buy 2 sets of RS-6s at $400/set. That total is about the same as 1 set of new NT-01s.

You mentioned "time trials" as a means of pushing yourself to improve. I compete in Time Attack and (I apologize for sounding like I'm bragging) I haven't placed anything less than 1st. That being said I've missed 2 events. 1 I would've placed 2nd to a tuned 2012 GTR that ran a ridiculous time and the other event I missed (REGRETFULLY) would've included 2 E36 M3 track cars. That would've been excellent competition. I had played with on in the past and on the straights I ate the M3 but he was on slicks so I ended up cooking my RS3s trying to unsuccessfully compete with his corner speed.

Reasoning is to be able to keep pushing with that M3 on slicks. The NT-01's compound can handle more heat and don't fall off as fast. Also my suggestion to TT is for more track time and having more of a "race" set of rules. Teaches you to make clean passes, set up a pass without screwing up your lap times and more track time. Did I say you would get more track time? Yeah I think I did.

Yes the NT-01's will cost more but the pay out will be worth it. I would also suggest keeping a set of RS3's to run in your first session to learn the track before swapping on the NT-01's and putting down fast lap times. Reduces the amount of heat cycles on the NT-01's but still has a decent level of grip.

Zimdoc, What tires did you use on that early 2000s Ford Windstar?

Only the best, Firestones. :shifty

What does that have to do with anything?

Just some friends playing around on the net. I need to start creeping on him some more if I can find his build thread.

[Black BNR32]

What does that have to do with anything?

Quote of the day.


Jon.

Inside joke. I'm just trolling yalls for some funnys.

[Redone]

Bump it up