Buyer Beware!

[CanadianGTR]

Okay, in light of recent events, I have decided to make a statement that basically flies in the face of everything I have tried to achieve over the last 2 months.

Alright, originally, I wanted to start importing cars on the side. Not for profit or anything but just to help form a community of knowledgable owners that can help eachother out. After giving it much thought, I plan on just doing it on a private level and not marketing myself at all - it will be more like "Yeah, my friend Justin can get you a GTR" rather than "Goto suchandsuch a company and buy from them". I feel that I can form a more personal relationship with my customers that way, while at the same time not having to constantly compete on a business level with other importers/brokers.

Anyway, that was sort of an intro and I hope that you can appreciate that my views aren't totally "anti-establishment" and "damn the man" by understanding where I'm coming from. I am not out to cause companies any lost sales or damage anyones reputation, I am just doing this to enlighten people to a fact that I believe is often overlooked.

Okay here we go...

Everyone knows how shady and sketchy used car dealers can be. You hear it all the time... used car salesmen are referred to as con-artists and whatnot. Well it's true (in most cases) , used car dealerships don't care about YOUR best interest, they care about making a sale that leaves them the LEAST liable/like to have to account to anything. Basically meaning they like to be hands off and have a buyer beware outlook. If you buy a car, and it's a heap of crap, too bad ... buyer beware.

Well it seems to me that people have been forgetting that all the way across the Pacific Ocean on a group of Islands known as Japan, there are used car dealerships just like right here in Canada. Everyone seems to forget that it is the EXACT same situation as it is here... vehicle exporters in Japan are basically out to make a sale that makes them the most profit and gives them the least headache. Being almost half way across the planet doesn't help the situation either. I'm sure many of you have been scammed in PERSON by dealerships in your area, I know I have. Well if a dealership is willing to blow wind up your ass IN PERSON, just imagine what being on a different continent means?

I'm not saying that EVERY SINGLE SUPPLIER IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED... but you have to understand that there is no difference between ABCDEFG MOTORS in Toronto ripping people off, selling cars that have been repaired poorly, etc... and ABCDEFG MOTORS in Japan.

A used car dealership is a used car dealership no matter how you cut it, and I think it is VERY important that you realize that before you trust someone on the other side of the planet with thousands of your hard earned dollars.

A few pointers:
- DO NOT be afraid to ask questions
- DO NOT be afraid to hassle your supplier (last time I checked, you are doing THEM a favor by purchasing a car from their establishment, not the other way around)
- DO NOT buy a car you have ANY doubts about
- DO NOT buy a car that has been for sale for a LONG time, there is usually a reason for that.
- IF IT'S TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT USUALLY IS.

Again, I do not intend this to scare people off, but more so to inform people of an aspect of importing that I think has been overlooked by many (Myself included).

If you feel that what I have said is extreme, please feel free to "set me straight". I am not trying to sabatoge anyones sale/purchase, because I too am trying to sell my car right now.

I hope that whoever reads this can understand that I'm trying to educate rather than terrify.

Thank-you for your time.

[thumper]

unfortuntely for most of us, we have to deal with something worse than used car dealerships across the ocean... it's importers and auction houses that most of us are stuck with.

grainy overexposed undersized photos online, clocked odometers, untranslated auction sheets, heavy import fees and so on... it's like a minefield out there for us newbie canadians compared to the rest out there who have done it much longer than us (ie. australia/uk/new zealand)

[JZ]

Point well taken, and expressed in true CdnGTR style.

I have said this many time before folks, and I will say it again. Take the time to research and look at everything objectively. Don't fall in love with the car. Look at it with as much disdain as possible, make the car sell itself to you.

If you're not comfortable with your saleman, walk away. If you feel the need to question the integrity of the company, you either need them to set you straight or you walk away. GTRC members are the most informed Skyline shoppers out there. This forum was created to empower all of us. Don't go into it alone if you don;t want. Post 'em up here and let us tear it apart for you! If you really think you've got a find, we will respect that and won't stab you in the back and bid against you. Dibs is dibs.

Thats all...

JZ

[CanadianGTR]

Yeah I forgot to mention that the topic applies to domestic imports/brokers as well... since they get their stock FROM a supplier.

Auctions are great if you have someone locally that can check out the car. Which is hard to find.

[CanadianGTR]

Point well taken, and expressed in true CdnGTR style.

I have said this many time before folks, and I will say it again. Take the time to research and look at everything objectively. Don't fall in love with the car. Look at it with as much disdain as possible, make the car sell itself to you.

JZ

Exactly, NEVER EVER EVER EVER fall in love with a car BEFORE you buy it (I did it with my first car and it REDIFINED the term "rip-off"), because then RIGHT AWAY you have a biased opinion and are less likely to walk away/more likely to put up with garbage from the person selling you the car.

Also, don't buy the first car you see, shop around, trust me it pays to wait an extra month and source out a car that you will be able to enjoy, rather than rush into a purchase and be left with a car you are putting more and more money into for repairs.

And John, is "CanadianGTR Style" a good or a bad thing? :wink:

[DrMango]

i learned that lesson the hard way too. i bought a truck off a guy . car was inspected and everything came up good as i was told. i did have a bad feeling in my gut but i went for it....5(five) days later the motor cratered under regular driving. no exageration no bs. 5 fking days and i was out another 2000 $. i got a fkin deal on the motor wook cause my uncle owns his own shop so it coulda been worse.

like he said, ANY doubts and back away. i got in a rush needed a vehichle right away and i paid for it. 20/20...

[Toughguy]

is "CanadianGTR Style" a good or a bad thing? :wink:

Ahhh that`s a good thing! We are lucky to have people such as you who actually have gone through the purchasing process and is willing to share the dark secrets without embarassment. It takes a strong person to help others not make the same mistakes they might have made.


Toughguy 8)

[MNW]

I spent about 6 months looking for a car . I finaly found one from Import Concern, one that had been around on their website for a little bit, but only because it was from a private sale and most people back then wanted to try and get a cheaper car from auction. I have been happy with my car (knowing full well when i recieved it that there was probably going to be some work needed as it is now a 16 year old car.).

I believe that good things come to those who wait, but I do agree that you shouldn't be afraid to question the importer on the car you are interested in. It is better to pester the importer to make sure you are getting exactly what you want with your car.

[CanadianGTR]

is "CanadianGTR Style" a good or a bad thing?

Ahhh that`s a good thing! We are lucky to have people such as you who actually have gone through the purchasing process and is willing to share the dark secrets without embarassment. It takes a strong person to help others not make the same mistakes they might have made.


Toughguy 8)

Thank you for the kind words. I just hope people can learn from my mistakes as much as I can learn from other people's mistakes. :wink:

We are all relatively new to this, so if there is any way I can make everyone's experience more enjoyable, then I'll be more than happy to do it.

(Even if that means driving to Brampton on 1/8th of a tank of gas to help out YOU, Dennis. hehehe, I'm just kidding around)

[spd-dmn]

Truer words were never spoken.

Although I was at an advantage when buying my s13 because I didn't have to purchase it sight unseen (clearly the worst part of buying overseas), I nearly made the mistake of buying the first few I found because I thought each was "the one". John and Justin are absolutely dead-on regarding their points of 'falling in love' with the car before buying it. When that happens, every flaw becomes justified and its importance diminishes by a factor of 10. I'm lucky as hell to have had some sober friends to thank and sober parents who -made- me put every car on a lift before committing to buy. Glad I did... bent subframes, bent tc rod brackets, poorly re-welded rad supports, rusted steering lines... just some of the delights that were exposed. All things I would have loved to overlook in exchange for getting the car right there and then.
The biggest thing I'd recommend to anyone is to, if -at all possible-, get the car on a lift before buying. This applies mostly to cars already imported and put on sale as dealer stock. But, as Justin mentioned, if you can establish a contact in Japan and have it done remotely, it would be equally useful.
Trust me... the wait is worth it. I waited ~2yrs to find the perfect 240. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that this is a prerequisite for a good car; far from it. But, especially when purchasing 15yr old supercars from 9000km away, you definitely want to a) do your homework b) have the patience of a saint c) LISTEN to those who have been through the process and LEARN from their advice.

Not breaking news or anything... but it's a point to drive home everytime. :P

[Daemos]

This topic should be sticked (not that anyone reads the stickies) for those that read, and the newbies that come in, might learn alot from this post

[CanadianGTR]

Hehehe, I actually thought I would get more of a negative feedback than I have received.

Thanks.

[funkymonkey]

nah I think you hit the nail on the head. From my point of view, Canada seems to be right now exactly where the Australian market was 4 years ago: customers who are inexperienced in the process, the ins and outs, the catches, the scams etc and dealers both in Canada and Japan who are in a position to pull the veil over their customers.

In due time buyers in Canada will become more familiar with the whole "importation" concept. Till then the best thing you can do is ask as many questions as possible, and while you shouldn't be afraid to import, you should be wary. Be careful if the seller can't provide Auction reports for cars bought at auctions or supporting documents to prove their claims, organise an inspection while the car is in Japan with an option of cancelling, etc. When guys in Australia were starting out, buying through brokers was taboo, as they didn't offer the "touch and feel comfort", and becasue of this Dealers were putting markups of about 10k on their cars, and getting away with it, because all the customer ever saw was a Net Value on a car that "looked good" after a bit of repairs, not a step by step breakdown of price with reciepts and invoices along the way.

Also face facts that Japanese cars are NOT stored away in garages and only brought out twice a year for a liesurely sunday drive, so they won't all have amazingly low km's - these cars are still 15 years old so it's unlikely that you will find one in 'as new' condition .. one major advantage is that most Japanese cars will have less rust than local Canadian models.

Its also amusing that every man and his goldfish with some spare money that can put together a website is suddenly an importer in Canada due to the lack of regulations in the market sector. There's more to being an import broker or dealer than knowing an English teacher in Japan that moonlights as an agent for example. You'll find those with more established links and experience can offer you more services that are quicker, thorough and at the end of the day, reliable. Which in the end should help you find a car that YOU want, and not a car that they want you to buy.

[thumper]

what do u people thing about paying extra for additional services built into the purchase cost of a vehicle from someone with a local established storefront business? ie. inspections and repairs done prior to sale, with assurances that there will be post-sales parts and service/maintenance support, rather than just going with an importer and pay the fees to just get the car from there to here and u have to go on your own to the dock/yard and get the car yourself?

[Murphy]

I for one would never ever buy a car sight unseen without a mechanic's inspection report.

From what Christian has said apparently this attitude is the exception rather than the rule. I can't quite get my head around that, but, your choice I guess.

The broker's work in Canada is more important the further away from BC you live as far as I can see

I'm going to sticky this for a bit and hope that it doesn't suffer the fate of other stickies - i.e. invisibility :P