Sound like a scam to you?

[Snow]

To say I am not a very trusting guy is a gross understatement. When it comes to the internets and the world that is, I have an even harder time. Seriously, I think everyone on eBay with 99.9% buyer feedback is a scam artist.

As I have publicly mentioned previously I am moving to Ontario in August and trying to find a place. I've found a place the two of us like, and it seems reasonably priced. Seems to be legit. Too legit even.

I've been talking with a woman by the name of Judy from Guardian Property Management. The woman became difficult to get a hold of for a couple days (she kept missing my calls). I finally caught her on the phone on Monday when she told me a few people have applied for it and she's unsure if it's still available (after I had expressed that I had wanted the place). Then today (Tuesday) I received this email:

Good Evening Chris
I just heard from the office that there may be a problem with the application that is on Goldthread right now...I may be jumping the gun here , but I have emailed you an application to this unit. If you would like to fill it out then I could submit it as soon as I know it is "free" to show.
Here is the link again

Just let me know what you think
Judy

An application came along with it in PDF form. It doesn't look too formal. But they do ask for everything I would imagine could constitute identity theft:

• Current Address
• Name
• Age
• SIN
• Length of time at present address
• Present landlords name
• Present landlords address
• Present landlords telephone no.
• Present rent being paid
• Your previous address
• Length of time at previous address
• Previous landlords name
• Previous landlords address
• Previous landlords telephone no.
• Previous monthly rent
• Employer's name
• Employer's address
• Employer's telephone number
• Length of time at present job
• What is your occupation
• What is your annual income
• Previous employer's name
• Previous employer's phone number
• Length of time employed
• Name and branch of bank
• Number and type of account
• Year and make of vehicle
• License plate number
• Driver's license number
• Birth Date

They also ask for personal and credit references, and first months rent in the form of a currently dated cheque to process the application (I said since I live across the country I would have a hard time getting the check there within the time frame they are looking at, especially with the postal strike). I am attempting to get out of this part, as I am not particularly comfortable with that either for obvious reasons. Cheques are considered as good as cash and this contract is not signed by anyone and could be a false company meaning it is not a legally binding agreement of any sort.

Now don't get me wrong... Some (a lot) of this information could, and in some cases should be used for a property management company to qualify tenants. If I was renting a place through them, I would want the same thing I'm sure. But it all seems a little daunting.

Couldn't find a website for them. This is their address: 3087 Sandhills Road, Baden, Ontario N3A 3B8. Google maps shows what seems to be a small house on farm land in the middle of butt-fu*k nowhere.

Discuss. Advise.

[cschepp]

Never heard of them man! I do travel to beaten every once and a while but never seen this place! If you are moving to the kw area I could suggest some good places from previous experiences that I have enjoyed.

[cortexx]

I have have a client that owns a handful of rental properties in the GTA an those requests are pretty common here.

The reason is that landlords have fallen prey to thousands of new immigrants that like to get into a property and not pay rent . The laws in ontario are absolutely rediculous and totally side with the tenant. Once they are in you cannot kick them out unless you go to the courts , pay all the fee's and get a bayliff to remove them. This can take up to 9 months and thousands of dollars to process.

Once they have been kicked out you can bet the landlord will have to redecorate and replace doors , carpets etc before putting it back up for rent and he won't get the back rent he is owed for the previous ditchpig that moved in.

This has caused a problem where there are thousands of non-english speaking imigrant families that get in and squat like roaches . The landlord has to profile each and every applicant to really protect their own interest. They will background check you and they will credit check you, it's part of the course.

You are at an extreme disadvantage because you are the other side of the country and cannot book an appointment to view the place, this also means the landlord cannot view you ! If you are a white , english speaking professional and they meet you first it's not such a big deal.

[Snow]

My response to her email:

Hey Judy,

I went on to fill it out with the edit feature but I have had no such luck so I'm going to have to print it and fill it out manually and then scan it back into the computer and email it back. Unfortunately I cannot email you a cheque for one months rent... What is our next best course of action? Also, I obviously never received anything about "Meters," could you forward whatever that is about or give me a quick run down here? Lastly I'm unsure with what you would like us to provide as credit references. Would BC Hydro and Telus be a complete enough reference, or is there something in particular you would be looking for?

Please advise so I can fill this form in exactly as needed and then I will get it back to you as soon as possible.

Thanks,

Chris Snow

Her response back:

Meters are the fact that yes, you are responsible for paying heat and hydro. The previous tenant was paying approx 175 a month in total. I would email money transfer the last months rent if you are interested in the place to the office (rentalcentre@aol.com)
If you are uncomfortable about that, feel free to call them tomorrow during business hours, eastern stand time :-) 519-634-5335
Those are perfect credit references! It is just to prove who you are
Hope that helps...I will be up for another hour if you need more help
Take care
Judy

I will call tomorrow about the EMT. I can't do EMT with my credit union and checks won't get there with the strike. To add to all of that, I am uncomfortable sending rent across the country for an application to be processed. I will give them last months rent when I have a signed lease agreement.

I know the law is on the tennants side in BC as well so I'm not suprised by this. But, as I stated before, I am not very trusting.

[cortexx]

BTW that address is about 5 minutes outside of kitchener , if i had a few bucks to buy a place and wanted a home run business that would be where i would want to live. I sure as hell wouldnt want to live IN kitchener , but to be fair , I hate living in any city!

Can you pay her by Credit card over the phone ? if so do it , if you get ripped off do a charge back and you'll get the cash back instantly .

OR send me a brand new nismo intake plenum and i'll go pay her a visit for you

[Adler]

why does she need your social insurance number? wtf..

[cortexx]

credit check !

[Snake556]

Hmm... Little odd :S I've never heard of that company either, but there are tons of little companies like that all over.

[M13]

from the info they are asking, this seems like a template for an identity theft.

I'd shop around Chris.

[G.T.R]

For super legit property management company, they have an aol email account? what is she, 15 ?

[DarkCaporaL]

I have a couple friends that own property and are in the rental business, and asking all that information is completely normal.

They do credit checks and even send requests for information to the government (over here in Quebec it's the Regie du Logement).

Reason being, is that there have been too many cases of being ripped off by people living on welfare, not paying and destroying property. The owners are just protecting themselves. They also often request to know who your previous landlords were to call them up and ask details about you.

On the east coast this is completely normal, I wouldn't be worried.

[aN4rk1]

MOST of that information that they are asking you is very very common. I had to fill out about a 1000 of such applications over the course of the last year because I pretty much had to move twice. Here is a LEGIT form for peel region rental application:

http://www.delrentals.com/pdf/rental_application_mar2011.pdf

Few things that you need to know however:

1) You DO NOT have to put your sin number on the application form. Your sin number is tied to your credit score and it is COMPLETELY optional to put it on the form in Ontario. If they deny you any service or anything like that, I would bring it to their attention.

2) The aol.ca email is a little iffy, that is the only thing that is pointing towards a scam. However MY realtor has a gmail address and ive seen it with most realtors here.

3) First and last months rent upfront is very VERY common. I had to do this...TWICE. I agree with cortexx and you should pay with a credit card over the phone and if **** hits the fan, contact your credit card company and they should be able to help you. I even had to give 10 more post dated checks for each month that I would be living for the duration of the lease.

4) Credit checks are normal. I had to get a copy of my credit history AND my credit score when I was filling out the forms. There are many many websites that help you do this for a small fee (I think I paid $20) and that should be MORE than suffice for a "credit reference"

Good luck Chris! Post if you have more questions

[Snow]

I need help finding a place in Waterloo. We're quite picky, and pictures aren't really helping us out too much. I'm also having a hard time sending $1300 across the country based off of grainy internet pictures and promises of the apartment actually existing/being for rent and not getting ripped off.

I'd basically need someone to just go check them out in person. It would only be a couple places. I would pay you for your time (gas if you drive far) with cash or in-kind gifts (Skyline related of course!).

PM me if you're interested in helping me out.

I would enjoy sending someone to this location I mentioned previously in this thread.

I take SIN numbers and birth dates and that at work all the time and I know that it is often required, but if it gets into the wrong hands...

This is the latest email I sent them:

Judy,

I haven't had a chance to call the office yet but I've filled out the form and will either fax it or scan and email it after I call the office tomorrow or Monday. Have you received any updates on the status of the unit at 613 Goldthread?

There are a few things I am uncomfortable disclosing on this application, especially with all of the ID theft taking place this day and age, and considering I can't seem to find a company website/profile or any listings in business directories. It is also troubling that the address provided for the office is a small house in what appears to be quite a rural area, and that none of the emails have a company domain, but rather an AOL address. I hope that this is alright. Mainly I am hesitant in providing my D.O.B, drivers license number (unsure why you need that anyway) and bank account numbers as they can't legally reveal balances to you anyways. My social insurance number and landlord, personal, credit and professional references should speak wonders in itself.

I figured I would mention this to you first to see your thoughts before I present this to the office.

Let me know what you think of this, and give me an update on the current status of the property.

Thanks for everything,

Chris Snow