Refining my 1989 BeeR 324 GTR and building my dream

[matthewc72]

I have a pair of Garrett GT2860R-5's on the way, I'm trading an old project car straight across for them. As to the factory R32 turbos everything I have read is that they are safe up to 1bar or about 14psi. I've got mine set at 13psi for the time being. Once the new turbos are in I'm going to need more fueling and engine management to truly gain any benifit.

[matthewc72]

Well I went ahead and pulled the trigger on my new hood.





The price was too good to pass up. Hopefully the quality will meet my expectations. Should be here by the end of the month.

Matt

[grapejuice]

Where in Denver are you? I'm in SE Denver.

We'll have to meet up once I get mine back, currently getting fixed after I was rear ended sitting at a red light back in June.

[supersayianjim]

why aren't you going aem?

[matthewc72]

Sounds good Grape! I've met the owner of the Orange R33 and am always down to meet up with other fellow owners!

I looked at AEM and Haltech side by side and the thing I like about the Haltech is the benifit of being able to have it tuned for 91 octane (highest we have in Denver) and tuned for E85 in the same tune. The Haltech E85 module actively detects the octane level of the gas running through it and adjusts your tune accordingly. So if I can't find E85 and end up with a mixed tank of E85/91 my tune will be adjusted automatically. Also my Tuner is very familiar with tuning Haltech's which is a huge plus!
Matt

[Skym]

I like.

I have a pair of Garrett GT2860R-5's on the way, I'm trading an old project car straight across for them.

With those GT 28 turbo's you'll need Tomei Poncams to help spool the turbo's earlier in rpm with the addition of adjustable camgears, new valve springs (Tomei) if stock valve springs have done high km, outlet pipes for both turbo's.

Also upgrade to a Tomei 1.2mm metal headgasket above 1 bar of boost, Tomei metal intake, exhaust gasket kit. Make sure your exhaust is up to task (not restricting the engine). So at least a 3.5 inch catback exhaust with a 0.5 inch difference between front pipe diameter, catback diameter to prevent turbulence that can restrict the exhaust.

At least Sard 700cc injectors, Nismo 300lph fuel pump upgrade to suit with a Deatchwerks, Tomei or similar fuel pump hardwire kit (hardwired for 13.5+ volts to flow 300lph+).

I would limit stock engine bottom end to 550hp at engine with stock conrod bolts, stock forged I beam conrods (preferably 460hp for daily use).

With upgraded conrod bolts (ARP, Tomei, etc), Tomei forged pistons, Nismo bearings you could push it further (up to 700hp at engine on dyno).

Also twin plate clutch to suit with flywheel (Nismo / Exedy or similar).

Also a sump baffle kit (Nismo, Tomei, etc) would be worth it with a Accusump tank to help to prevent oil starvation problems.

As to the factory R32 turbos everything I have read is that they are safe up to 1bar or about 14psi. I've got mine set at 13psi for the time being. Once the new turbos are in I'm going to need more fueling and engine management to truly gain any benifit.

Depends on the balance of the turbo's (wear due to age). Also does the engine have an engine oil cooler to keep oil temps at a safe level, which prevents bearing failure inside the centre part of turbo's (CHRA), bottomend bearing failure.

Stock R32 GTR turbo's are good for around 430hp at engine with a boost up (ECU, injectors, fuel pump, fuel pump hardwire kit, boost controller, clutch, Z32 AFM's + Z32 MAF plugs if using a MAF based ECU) if in good condition.

Stock engine (including turbo's) is good to around 390hp at engine with stock injectors, stock MAF's with ECU, boost control, clutch upgrades.

I looked at AEM and Haltech side by side and the thing I like about the Haltech is the benifit of being able to have it tuned for 91 octane (highest we have in Denver) and tuned for E85 in the same tune. The Haltech E85 module actively detects the octane level of the gas running through it and adjusts your tune accordingly. So if I can't find E85 and end up with a mixed tank of E85/91 my tune will be adjusted automatically. Also my Tuner is very familiar with tuning Haltech's which is a huge plus!
Matt

Link, ViPEC ECU's can do that too. They use a GM ethonal content sensor.

[matthewc72]

Thanks for some great information Skym!!! I am still in the research phase and trying to put together a sound plan for my full build and you have given me a lot of great info in one place! My goal is a good, fun and most importantly reliable car. I also want something that I can take out and have fun with my brother-n-law who has a 2012 ZO6 Vette, lol

So 550 at the crank equates out to how much HP roughly at the wheels as recorded on a AWD Dyno? I have heard a bunch of different conversions and am just trying to figure out what is the most generally accepted drivetrain loss on a GTR from the crank to the wheels.

Matt

[bobbo]

That will depend a lot on who makes the dyno. A ball park will be 18% but depending on who makes the dyno can vary that significantly.
As an example. On a 2wd Dynopac I made 427rwhp. Using the conversion that the Ontario Time Attack Association provides I make 496.5 at the crank. If I had used a Mustang dyno it would've been about 399rwhp. I don't recall the conversion but you can see how much of a difference there can be from one dyno to another.
BTW with a little bit of money spent in the right places and a good tune you won't have any issues with your brother-in-laws ZO6

[Skym]

Thanks for some great information Skym!!! I am still in the research phase and trying to put together a sound plan for my full build and you have given me a lot of great info in one place! My goal is a good, fun and most importantly reliable car. I also want something that I can take out and have fun with my brother-n-law who has a 2012 ZO6 Vette, lol

You're welcome.

That's well known info in Japan (they recommend to change stock conrods, stock conrod bolts above 550hp if racing the car / driven hard). Stock cast pistons are good to 600hp or 100hp per cylinder, hence why they are changed out when seeking 700hp at engine. Ideally 460hp is where it's safe for daily use, reliability for engine, transmission, etc.

Also that's with the usual intake, full exhaust from turbo's breathing mods (stock airbox flows more than a podfilter when worked out on paper and has been used up to 600hp+ on GTR's).

You have to set a hp goal and then gear the car to that hp goal. But like with most GTR's you always want more and more hp, so that hp goal rises as you get used to the hp.

Tomei has crate engine specs for different hp RB26 engines and that would give you a rough idea on what to change (or buy a Tomei Crate engine, built to correct specs).

If racing a V8, I would look at a RB30 or stroker RB34 bottomend, as it has more torque, hp down low and mix with 270 duration cams which give slightly more hp, torque down low over 260 duration cams. Then concentrate on camtiming, breathing, boost control, launch control adjustments to bring boost on earlier. The bigger capacity RB30 bottomend (important when intercooler core, size, turbo size is increased, as get more lag) would bring those turbo's on boost quicker and get mid 700hp range at full boost. Add some E85 in the tank and proper turbo sizing and have decent quick GTR with up to 800-850hp at full boost. But make sure the trans, driveshafts, diffheads are up to the task, as they will most likely fail.

Here's data from a intercooler manufacturer showing lag vs capacity vs intercooler size and note the increased capacity helps to reduce lag (why stroker kits to increase capacity are popular with big hp GTR's) -

http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm#Turbo Lag

Basically with more hp the intercooler size increases to match the flow of combination of engine, turbo's (CFM), so get more lag. So increase in capacity helps to reduce this lag.

So 550 at the crank equates out to how much HP roughly at the wheels as recorded on a AWD Dyno? I have heard a bunch of different conversions and am just trying to figure out what is the most generally accepted drivetrain loss on a GTR from the crank to the wheels.

Matt

Around 700hp at engine is roughly around 430awkw or 576.63awhp with a R34 GTR (with diffhead conversion to R33 GTR V-spec). That's with stock 4wd settings on a Hub Dyno, so no tyre slip.

The man who worked on the R32 Group-A GTR engines said for street GTR's you are looking at around 35% for R32 GTR, R33 GTR and 25% for R34 GTR to the wheels. That's comparing engine dyno to roller dyno figures. But don't know what clutch, 4wd settings, etc he used for those test's (I assume stock or close to).

If want more hp on the cheap, pull the 4wd fuse under dash on drivers side and run in rwd mode for more hp at the rear wheels (some do this on a drag strip with drag radials on the rear with stock GTR rims that are very light, roughly around 6.5kg per rim).

The 4wd soaks up alot of hp. So a 4wd controller with dialing more rwd will give higher trap speed, higher et on a drag strip. More 4wd will give more stability (R32 GTR, especially 1989 model has a shorter wheel base) while sacrificing et, trap speed and get off the line better.

On a drag GTR they tend to remove the electric pump setup and run a hand pump setup (I think Veilside used to sell these, not sure if they still do, but can be custom made) to dial in the 4wd.

Here's how to on making a custom 4wd controller for adjusting for more rwd or 4wd (including wiring diagrams) -

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=107753

On N1 R34 GTR at Nurburgring they had 2x buttons on dash to reset 4wd, ABS for wet weather conditions.

Also make sure your brakes are up to task as well.

Another well known trick is running a Nismo Getrag R34 GTR gearbox conversion kit in a R32, R33 GTR (R32, R33 GTR have 4.11:1 diffheads) to get the shorter gearing in lower gears (in a R34 GTR they fit R33 GTR Vspec 4.11:1 diffheads) -

http://www.nismo.co.jp/products/catalogue_2014/#page=132

R34 GTR gearbox conversion mixed with those spec turbo's you want gives good result's with acceleration.

They nickname GTR's money pits, as can spend up to 100-200K on them quite easily. Basic engine build alone with upgraded conrod bolts, bearings, pistons, turbo's, etc can be around 10-15K.

In my opinion 460hp is enough for a street GTR (Poncams, N1 turbo's or HKS 25/30 turbo's or Garrett equivalent, boost up mods) and quite quick and doesn't stress the stock drivetrain too much.

[JosiahP]

Skym the knowledge you have of the GTR platforms never ceases to amaze me!

[supersayianjim]

hence he should be crowned skyline king. but, where is your build thread skym??

[amnash]

i second build thread, even if its just routine maintenance!

[mwracing]

Dustin was working on this B324R when my MWR34 and Levi's B324R was in the shop at the same time. having three around was fun times





here is your car

[matthewc72]

mwracing first let me say that I am quite the fan of your work! I read your full R32-R34 conversion from start to finish in one setting! That was quite the build and it came out amazing!!

I have been talking with Dustin and he sent me a ton of pictures of my car while it was his. I am trying to catalog as much of my cars North American history as I can find into a build book that will show my cars evolution. Thank you for those new pictures as I do not have them in my current collection.

I would love to take on an awe inspiring conversion like yours but that's out of my reach right now so I plan to just refine the current R324 kit on my car. I just picked up a Nismo Z Tune style CF hood, I may be looking at a different front bumper and fenders as well in the near future and will at some point seal and mold in the rear overlays for a more permanent look. I have worked with wide body overlay panels like that on other cars in the past and had some really clean results.

Matt

[mwracing]

Thanks for the compliments. I have something brewing in the near future. No pics or updates till its done thou.

Be careful with trying to go half non bee-r and normal r34 parts. The side skirts are fairly aggressive but most bumpers are not. Just do some photoshopping ideas before spending big dollars.