Injecting Compressed Air to Kill Turbo Lag?

[tokes]

The air/fuel ratio isn't a ratio in terms of direct volume, it's a ratio in terms of molecular volume. Mol/Litre. It takes way more than 14.7 litres of air to combust 1 litres of fuel at stoich.

An RB26 making 480 HP is consuming roughly 740 cubic feet/minute of air at 8400 RPM's. Making 100 HP at 3000 RPM's it's pulling 150 CFM's of air. There are about 28.3 litres of air in one cubic foot. So if you think you can get 160 litres out of a tank, that would translate to 2.26 seconds worth of flow into the motor.

Brutally rough calculations, but more accurate than yours, and I hope you now realize why this absolutely will not work. Nitrous or smaller turbos, my friend.

[gunner_imports]

The air/fuel ratio isn't a ratio in terms of direct volume, it's a ratio in terms of molecular volume. Mol/Litre. It takes way more than 14.7 litres of air to combust 1 litres of fuel at stoich.

An RB26 making 480 HP is consuming roughly 740 cubic feet/minute of air at 8400 RPM's. Making 100 HP at 3000 RPM's it's pulling 150 CFM's of air. There are about 28.3 litres of air in one cubic foot. So if you think you can get 160 litres out of a tank, that would translate to 2.26 seconds worth of flow into the motor.

Brutally rough calculations, but more accurate than yours, and I hope you now realize why this absolutely will not work. Nitrous or smaller turbos, my friend.

Ha ha now I see... Thanks for finally showing me the light. Although, no one else has explained why this won't work, no need to be condescending.

[tokes]

I wasn't trying to be condescending, just trying to help you understand why it won't work. If you want to see me being condescending, go look at some of my other posts

[GTR-Dad]

that would translate to 2.26 seconds worth of flow into the motor.

Brutally rough calculations, but more accurate than yours, and I hope you now realize why this absolutely will not work. Nitrous or smaller turbos, my friend.

Thanks for bringing some realistic, if not brutally rough, calcs to the table tokes.

Consider for a minute (or 2 1/2 seconds... whatever you got time for...) that you only need to store enough air to satisfy one off-boost event and that you'll find a way to charge the reservior before you need it again. You could do this any number of ways, including a passenger with a hand pump. I'd probably go for an auxiliary compressor. Longer recharge interval if you use a superlight unit, greater weight penalty but faster recharge if you use a larger unit.

There are other challenges as well. For example, how do you manage a surge of pressure back against the compressor before you're spooling? How do you let a MAF-based load measurement ECU know there's extra air in the system?

The point is that improvements happen when guys dare to dream. Free nitrous anyone?

Don't be a dream wrecker.

Dan

[gunner_imports]

Thanks for bringing some realistic, if not brutally rough, calcs to the table tokes.

Consider for a minute (or 2 1/2 seconds... whatever you got time for...) that you only need to store enough air to satisfy one off-boost event and that you'll find a way to charge the reservior before you need it again. You could do this any number of ways, including a passenger with a hand pump. I'd probably go for an auxiliary compressor. Longer recharge interval if you use a superlight unit, greater weight penalty but faster recharge if you use a larger unit.

There are other challenges as well. For example, how do you manage a surge of pressure back against the compressor before you're spooling? How do you let a MAF-based load measurement ECU know there's extra air in the system?

The point is that improvements happen when guys dare to dream. Free nitrous anyone?

Don't be a dream wrecker.

Dan

Haven't came up with a good way to recharge the reservoir yet... But I'm sure there's a way, if there's a will.

Pressure back agains the compressor would be managed by a one way valve after the intercooler that would only allow positive pressure into the intake manifold. Once the pressure from the turbo exceeded the pressure from the tank, the valve would open from the compressor and close from the tank.

Was thinking you'd have to scrap the MAF system and go to a manifold pressure sensor...

And ya, if you could kill turbo lag with a free gas (compressed air), then why not?

D

[GTR-Dad]

Just ran across a great quote on my Starbucks cup.

"The most important thing in life is to stop saying "I wish" and start saying "I will". Consider nothing impossible, then treat possibilities as probablities.
David Copperfield

There are many more challenges to making the turbo lag eliminator functional and practical. I applaud your enquiring mind and passion to do it!

Cheers,
Dan

[mcfly]

if you were to trap door the intake prior to the turbo and force the air directly at the compressor intake it just might work.

you would need to be running a map based ecu at a minimum and have some very good mapping done.



then you have to worry about getting the air from a tank to the system

[Dragon Humper]

Yup, the A/F ratio is 13 pounds of air to 1 pound of fuel to give you a proper ratio for full power. Think about that for a second, 13 pounds of AIR . That equates to a huge volume at atmospheric pressure.

If (and that's a big if) you get this to work without blowing up your motor (a boosted motor is WAY more sensative to A/F ratio changes) you would be recharging your tank after every second use, not very user friendly.

A 50 shot of NO2 will do the job very nicely and can be had off Flea.Bay for as little as $350 now (single nossle wet shot). A 50 would last you at least 10 average solo laps at a Parking Lot road race meet.

Afterthought: if you think of using HIGH compressed air (ie:scuba Steve) it's been done. The use of NO2 came about because they were blowing up RollsRoyce airplane engines in WWII with straight air because it is a very violent and uncontroled burn with just O2, they found that if they added nitrogen to the mix (NO2) that the burn was much more controlable and lowered the EGT's.

Jon.

[Justice]

no, the concept it right but it's not practical, the amount of airflow necessary to accomplish what you are thinking is more then a little line could produce, either that or as mentioned it would be a short burst. you would need significant airflow or else you would only create a mild pressure increase before the turbos that would just as easily escape out of your air filter.

wouldnt everyone be better off installing some sort of a motor that spins the turbine ?

[TW]

Holy thread revival batman.

No, i dont think that would be possible.... where would you put it??

[Velders]

One word, kinda, Anti-lag

[love_boost]

well i didnt really read the whole topic but i think injecting compressed air at a certain angle ect. into the exhuast wheel may probably help spool up. only thing is compressed air would cool down the exhuast temp which could slow the exhuast flow itself down. just rambling.

[NismoS-tune]

Twin scroll helps some, anti lag helps more and a V8 is best. You can't have no lag without big displacement.

Antilag evo

My favorite antilag video

And most likely why I won't use it.

[Zacho]

So you most likely won't use anti-lag because it has a 1/10000 chance of setting off an airbag that you don't have which could break your windshield?

wut?

[Velders]

Hahaha he got you there.... Now you have no choice. DO IT!!!!!