R32 Build date vs. Model year Question

[Armanio]

Hi guys,
I may be a new poster here but not new to forums. Quick question after I read the sticky re: early rb26 crank issues w/ the oil pump drive.

After feb. 93 nissan used the revised crank. I want an R32 with the revised crank. From my experience sometimes cars are manufactured in (let's say) 1993, but the "model year" that you see associated for the registry of the car is (let's say) 1994. So, should I buy a 94 R32 GTR to be safe, or can I get a '93 GTR and it will have the new style crank so long as according to the registry it is a post feb. '93 car?

Thanks in advance guys.

[gtrjon]

I swear this is the biggest myth and most understood fallacy regarding the rb26 and skylines in general. I wouldnt pay 1 penny more for a "revised collar" motor. Im not speaking based of interweb knowledge but rather from first hand experience of having a 91 crank and a new r34 oem crank and comparing the two

http://forums.gtrcanada.com/parts-sale/42468-f-s-rb-crank-collars-1-2mm-orifice-10an-drain-fitting-rb30s-more.html

[Armanio]

Hey,
thanks for the response, I read the article: http://www.skylife4ever.com/2011/01/...-oil-pump.html
But read another thread (I'll link it as soon as I find it) that involved someone e-mailing and asking reimax/jun/tomei (one of the three) as to why they had larger tolerances (more wiggle room) and they said that too tight of tolerances doesn't allow for the whipping motion of the crank as it bends, and that too tight of tolerances will crack the gear. The conclusion that I came to was that these later crankshafts solved the issue.
Is it not true that early rb26's were more prone to shattered pump gears?
Or are r33's and R34's just as prone to this issue?
If they are not, then is it due to this wider flat area on the drive?
I'm going to read through your link right meow.
Thanks again.


*edit* just read your link, this seems to be one of those stories w/out a definitive answer. Hopefully you or someone can answer my above questions. I just want to get the best possible r32 I can, I'm planning on using it as a daily and not cracking 350hp ( I know, the mod bug always sets in, always want more powa etc) How likely am I shattering the pump gears if I don't bounce off the limiter and drive like a teenager, but still give her some good hard pulls?

[gtrte37]

Keep it under 8k and youll be fine. That goes for any stock RB, early or late crank.

[gtrjon]

Me and Allen (jdmrhds13) did an experiment when i received my new r34 crank straight from nissan. We measured the tolerances on both cranks using an oem rb26 oil pump, an n1 pump, and my tomei pump. Both the 32 and the 34 crank had almost the exact same out of wack tolerances. Simply getting a "late model" motor or crank for that matter will do nothing for you as far as safety goes. If you want to correct the oil drive issue the solution is simple.

Take whatever crank makes you happy 32,33,34
go to your local machine shop
give him your crank and whatever oil pump you plan on running
tell him you want .02 clearance on either side of the crank for a total of .04 overall tolerance.

bam issue solved


or............ go dry sump lol

[NismoS-tune]

You know... the cars with the old crank... they're still running after 25 years (almost) and most likely driven hard. dont' worry about it. If you're worried about it because you're gonna pump up the power, you'll be beefing it up anyway.

No matter what you get, it's gonna break at some point and cost you big bucks. look around at most stories and you'll see

[Skym]

Me and Allen (jdmrhds13) did an experiment when i received my new r34 crank straight from nissan. We measured the tolerances on both cranks using an oem rb26 oil pump, an n1 pump, and my tomei pump. Both the 32 and the 34 crank had almost the exact same out of wack tolerances. Simply getting a "late model" motor or crank for that matter will do nothing for you as far as safety goes. If you want to correct the oil drive issue the solution is simple.

Take whatever crank makes you happy 32,33,34
go to your local machine shop
give him your crank and whatever oil pump you plan on running
tell him you want .02 clearance on either side of the crank for a total of .04 overall tolerance.

bam issue solved


or............ go dry sump lol

Ross External oil pump setup + enlarged sump (7-9? litre).

[Armanio]

Wondering if anyone has firm answers to my questions, I've heard/read what has been said here before. If you google search something like "rb26 oil pump failure" the top hits are all for early rb's in r32's specifically. So, it would seem as though the later wide drive did help the situation with the oil pump gear breaking. Read: help, not fix. I want to make as informed a decision as I can when I buy my gtr. Thanks for the responses so far, and if you have your own rb oil failure story and thoughts on it let me know.

The other thing I've noticed is oil starvation as a result of no baffling in the pan. Which baffling kit would you recommend?

[beacher1B0]

Gtrjon, NismoS-tune and Skym all know more than the internet.

On RBs anyways.

Those r the best 3 answers as far as Oil Pump collars.

[Armanio]

I would think that at least a small increase in the surface area of that 3/16" contact patch by a longer snout crank in the late model crank cars would increase the strength of the pump. Does anybody have answers to my questions posted above?

Thanks

[gtrjon]

there are no definitive answers. Im not sure as to what you are hoping to find. a late model will last xxx and an early model will last xxx? its not a science expecially with 25 year old cars. Like i said i wouldnt pay a penny more for a late model. and to be honest the oil pump failing is really the least likely (despite internet rumors) and the least costly of your worries with skylines and rbs in general. if you want the piece of mind and security drive it and enjoy it til it breaks then build it properly.

[Armanio]

there are no definitive answers. Im not sure as to what you are hoping to find. a late model will last xxx and an early model will last xxx? its not a science expecially with 25 year old cars. Like i said i wouldnt pay a penny more for a late model. and to be honest the oil pump failing is really the least likely (despite internet rumors) and the least costly of your worries with skylines and rbs in general. if you want the piece of mind and security drive it and enjoy it til it breaks then build it properly.

I was referring to question in post 3 re r33's and 34's being just as prone to the failure and re the thread title question about if there is a lag between model year and production date and how much that lab is. I could've been less vague. I'm not looking for an expiry date, I just want the strongest foundation to work with. What other problems are more likely and more costly? ( for lightly modded sub 350 hp cars) as in my mind, the oiling problem was the most prominent and dangerous one. I appreciate all the input so far, just want to come to my own conclusions via your guys' experience.

[Armanio]

found an answer to build dates: http://www.gtrusablog.com/2013/01/ni...ion-dates.html
By checking VIN, I can find out build date.

[DarkCaporaL]

My understanding was that the issue causing failure wasn't related to clearances between the pump and crank but to the actual width of the collar area on the crank itself.

[Armanio]

My understanding was that the issue causing failure wasn't related to clearances between the pump and crank but to the actual width of the collar area on the crank itself.

If you look at the linked material in this thread you'll see it's all about the 3/16" contact patch made at the endge of the collar. A wider drive doesn't change this contact patch width.

After reading everything I could easily find online, my personal conclusions are that this happens most to high hp applications and driving like a bit of an asshat, so I'm not going to worry about it. I'll just end up rebuilding it later as per the advice here so I might as well keep money locked away for a full rebuild.