Build My RB20 or swap RB26 Into My GTS-4 (INFO NEEDED)

[Collector1313]

Hey guys;

I need some real expert experience here, Im stuck deciding to build or swap like the title says.
I have found that I am at an advantage for options because the car has the 4wd, but I have been reading alot of contradictions for my options.
If someone here can help me confirm a few swap details of what I will need, it would be great.
I try to search GTS-4 and I dont come up with much for exact info I need
If it is as easy and straight forward as some say I am thinking of going RB26 obviously over the RB20

So please if anyone has a complete requirements for the swap I would be happy if you can help
Thanks in advance
And Im new to Skylines, but can handle cars well

[Skym]

With those conversions, most buy a crashed R32 GTR or R33 GTR (for R33 GTS-4) and swap parts over (cheaper). The reason why is the whole drivetrain (diffhead ratio's front and rear, gearbox ratio's, etc are different between GTS-4, GTR) and brakes are bigger on GTR. Only things that are similar is the halfshaft diameter, subframes, etc. Have to remember, GTS-4 drivetrain was setup for RB20DET not RB26DETT. By the time you have done that, would have been easier to buy a GTR and mod it.

Depends on your hp goal and what you want the car to do, but easier and cheaper to mod RB20DET. Can mod stock RB20DET ECU with Nistune so it's retuneable / reflashable via cable, laptop.

[rb26addict]

have you thought of swapping in a rb25 ?

[Collector1313]

See like I said Im new to my options, if the RB25 will match up to the (4wd) drive-train and work then it might be a good idea.
I will see if I can find any thing on swapping in a RB25 into my GTS-4, or if anyone can add feel free
thanks
And for now I think it would be a good idea to finish the RB20 before going to the next step, its got life left so... kill it
How easy is the Nistune program to use??
Sound like a better idea than buying a AEM EMS2 right now,
use what I got for now to the full potential sounds like a good idea
Thanks Skym for the input and any other info on getting my hands on the Nistune hardware/software would be great

[Skym]

The RB25DET that fits in a R32 GTS-4 is out of a 4wd Stagea -

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Nissan/Engines/auction-347257052.htm

But would still need GTR diffheads, GTR gearbox when hp levels are raised beyond 400hp at engine (with RB20DET or equal amount of torque with RB25DET).

[Collector1313]

So....
Like I thought form my research on the www, building my RB20 is the best way, from what I can see I can be quite happy with the end results if I build the car correctly. (Ill buy a GTR latter LOL)
Any info on the Nistune program I need and where to get it?? Can Adam at Feast get it ??
Thanks for the info Skym, Im in Sudbury and we dont even have a tunning shop, I just want to do it right, the first time

[Skym]

I run Nistune in my cars ECU. Best thing is you don't need to retune ECU straight away, as it can use stock maps.

Nistune website (select region and mentions dealers in Canada that can install, tune Nistune) -

http://www.nistune.com/ordering-distributors.php

Nistune is sold with individual licence tuning software (to tune your car and 3x other cars only) and has a optional PLMS cable for tuning. Just need a laptop, wideband, access to dyno, etc and your set. A shop that can solder TV, etc components can install it in ECU or send ECU to one of the Nistune dealers in Canada or Nistune in Australia to install parts inside ECU.

I knew someone who had a 400hp (engine) RB20DET powered R32GTS-4. Ran 12.4sec 1/4 mile. Had the HKS catalogue dropped into it (turbo, intercooler, boost controller, etc). Daily setting was 330hp at engine due to using 100,000km+ stock bottomend, etc.

If you get bored, then fit R32 RB25DE head (uses same sensors as RB20DET engine, so can reuse RB20DET ECU, loom, RB20DET exhaust manifold, etc) and fit RB30 bottomend (with 4wd sump adaptor plate), GTR drivetrain, etc. So you have a upgrade path if you get bored. I know of one person with that type of setup (RB30) in his R32 GTS-T and it looks stock, but produces 400rwhp. Ultimate sleeper.

R32 GTS-4 with stock R32 RB25DE head, stock RB30 bottomend setup, good turbo, etc can run 10.2sec 1/4mile -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoqlOvMvhgo

Scare alot of GTR owners.

[Collector1313]

Sh*# man nice youtube link that car hauls.
thanks for the links to Nistune and the quick run down much appreciated, I will keep you posted on my build, when I asked for some expert help you gave me the best possible routes and recommendations. Thats awesome thanks a million
And my goal this summer is to beat the time below and also build along the way to try and go above and beyond that time, i will strip weight and do what it takes to beat my old EG Hatches time

Ya it would be nice to beat my old h22 civics time of 12.58 all engine fully gutted with alot of engine work . It was the old Axle Systems car, the placed has been closed for a bit now
pual at splitfire tunned it, and the final tunning run it ran 221whp and close too the same numbers on torque .
We built drive shafts, I bought the bosses R&D car before he went out of business, he built the car not me.

Now i will build my own.. its alot nicer than a Honda

[Skym]

That's what the forums are for.

Also that car is using a Link ECU with MAP sensor, etc. But stock ECU has been used on 10sec, 9sec GTR's in Japan. Nistune is similar to Hondata, but for Nissan's.

For example on a 1100hp at engine R32GTR with stock R32 ECU in NZ -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KA7Nqpyrmo

10sec run on low boost setting (high boost setting produces 1100hp at engine) -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBZJFHtUcbs&feature=related

Just run a 700hp rated (there are higher rated aftermarket Ford Lightning MAF's, but no tables with software on ECU to work with them) Ford Lightning MAF (from Ford Racing division) that stock R32 ECU with Nistune can work with. Upgraded Ford Lightning MAF is designed to be used with supercharged applications on V8's and has no gauze screens. Can run it in blow through setup (between intake manifold, BOV). Factory MAF setup is a draw through setup and is mounted before turbo (gauze screens on stock 300hp rated RB20DET MAF or 480hp rated Z32MAF with Z32MAF plug that needs to be wired in can become a restriction and not a good idea to remove them with that type of MAF as affects flow to and from sensor). There are weld on adaptors you can buy for Ford Lightning MAF, so you can install it on intakepiping.

His R32 GTS-4 had full interior, 400hp RB20DET. Also his R32 GTS-4 only had shocks, springs, nothing fancy in suspension department. If he dialed out rear camber with upper rear adjustable arms (get excessive camber on rear of Nissan's when rear squats that results in less contact patch with tyres), fitted drag slicks (can fit them on stock R32 GTR rims that are lighter than stock cast R32 GTS-4 wheels due to R32 GTR rims being forged), could have run a high to mid 11sec 1/4mile with stock interior. Stock R32 GTS-4 with stock RB20DET (including stock side mount intercooler), boost up (247awhp) can run flat 14sec to high 13sec on street tyres.

This is what a RB30 in R32 can do with 600hp, sequential gearbox, etc on racetrack, where you can use the hp -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3RKPrjSQYg

Those are cars with V8's following it.

[Collector1313]

The possibilities are huge, Im glad you posted all this, I can refer back anytime now.
You put a huge amount of info on this one page so far and I hope others can gain from this aswell.
As for me needing that much air, I hope it goes that far, I can get my hands on a lightning maf like nothing, my girlfriend is in parts ordering here in Sudbury for Cambrian Ford, what a coincidence.(probably cheap too)
And good thing I didnt get jumpy and buy that AEM EMS 2, since I now know to use and reprogram my stock equipment.

I got one word for this new found car of mine AMAZING
I have owned only imports in exception of my Saturn, and this car has so much over the Supra MK3 or MK4, I own a N/A MK3 and Im disappointed with the lack of mods available, but enough of my old nightmares time to enjoy a real tuners dream !!

[jdms13rhd]

If you just upgrade the rb20 to 400hp that would be the cheapest solution.

i've used RB26's and stagia RB25's in GTS-4's before and they worked fine. Problem is, an old rb26 is reasonably less reliable than rb25's in my opinion and you have to spend a decent amount to purchase an R33 to use all the parts and the yen is strong now. I've been through too many 26's to count and the RB25's I have used all lasted and still running. Go figure :P

As for swapping in a 26, its easy as pie. They drop right in. Just need to wire the eng harness to fit and your done. (simple job). Same with the rb25.

RB30 with rb25 n/a head is cheap and easy to do as well. just more little things to do.

All up to yuo now. let us know what rout you go!

[Collector1313]

Ya from the sounds of it Building my RB20 is the most sensible solution, for now.
If I want more after that I think I will sell and import a new one with a bigger engine so I can start from scratch with that as well.
This one came to me bone stock but high kms(very clean) 156k
It now has Nismo Exhaust, HKS down pipe, larger elbow, Walbro 255, HKS Turbo Timer & Boost Controller, Blitz BOV.
Im thinking of ordering a Driftworks Hicas Delete kit but need to research a bit more. I already ordered GTR injectors plus resistor pack just waiting for a decent turbo to show up for sale online in Japan so Adam at Feast can order it, dont want to go new Adam said a used one will more than do and will be in good working order when he gets one for me.

So thanks for all the expert advice, it helps alot in making the right choices for my build. I dont want to waste my time this summer building the car up only to realize I spent too much for what I got back, i want to do it right and you guys are making it easy for me not to make the mistake of swapping my engine out just yet. Im sure alot of people every year swap out when they can build, but I guess its what is the end goal of the build. I want a 12sec GTS4, then I can sell it and buy a GTR but thats after I make it to 12 sec.
Thanks for all those who helped so far, & saved me money that could of been wasted, I will keep you guys posted, either here or I will PM if I get stuck.

[Skym]

Could run engine on E85 and extract 50hp+ more (can advance igniton timing more to extract more hp and ethonal fuel provides a cooling effect for stock cast pistons).

Would do cambelt, tensioner, idler bearings, mounting studs for bearings (known to snap due to age, heat), waterpump, cam, crank seals (known to leak on high km engine) if it hasn't been done. Cambelt, etc is meant to be done every 110,000kms.

Also at same time, might look at getting Tomei 1.2mm, 80.5 bore metal headgasket, ARP headstuds (make sure they are correct tenstile strength ARP headstuds for application, as there are different types of ARP headstuds for different applications, hp levels). This is more for reliability with higher boost levels. Also would need Nissan repair gasket kit (intake, exhaust gaskets, etc), skim head and check valvesprings (cylinder head shop does this), check valve guides for cracks, replace valve seals, etc.

Stock RB20DET pistons, stock RB20DET conrods, stock RB20DET cams (rebuilt RB20DET with metal headgasket, etc) can handle 560hp at engine or 500rwhp on E85 gas with stock ECU -

http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=298289

RB20DET sounds amazing in Group-A spec (440hp+ at engine) -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIasNcIrZcM

[Collector1313]

Ya Adam At Feast already ordered me a Tomei HG 1.2 and I am looking into the ARP that I should use.
It lowers the compression a bit more with a thicker HG correct ?
So in most cases my block could see me through my goal without a build ?? That would be awesome.
There is so much speculation and "people who know what there doing" saying on various forms it a waste to build a RB20, go bigger they say.
from what jdms13rhd & Skym said it sounds like the RB20 has tons of potential and should not be judged so harshly

And just to recap on another problem, Im in Sudbury and I have no way to have any local shop around here even touch my car, they are all hill-billys and dont know a thing about even Honda swaps so they would not even know where to start with a Skyline.
Not to mention a lack of a Tuning / Dyno Shop here, we have nothing for imports around here. My only problem with cars is the lack of knowledge of the ecu's and from what it sound like 50% of the work involves tunning. As mentioned I can flash my ecu etc.. but its after that I worried about, I need to be able to re-tune and understand the ecu/program I am working with, I am a newbie to retunig and I dont want to seriously mess my car up
So what can I do when it comes time to start remapping etc... I was seriously considering AEMS EMS2 so I can atleast get the car basemap running until I can get it to a shop somewhere down south to preform my final tune, and where should I go for my final tune ??

This **** has been haunting me LOL

[amnash]

when im done mine i was thinking on taking the ferry down to the states somewhere