Legal seatbelts in Canada

[jonask]

I have a rollcage and I looking to buy something better than the stock seatbelts.

However, I want them to be DOT (legal DOT in Canada).
I don't want to keep the old seatbelts in the car.

I'm interested in the following products :

http://www.takataracing.com/products#drift-series

or

http://www.schrothracing.com/tuning/rallye/rallye-cross

are those legal in Canada for street use ?

thank you

[hozer]

I have a rollcage and I looking to buy something better than the stock seatbelts.

However, I want them to be DOT (legal DOT in Canada).
I don't want to keep the old seatbelts in the car.

I'm interested in the following products :

http://www.takataracing.com/products#drift-series

or

http://www.schrothracing.com/tuning/rallye/rallye-cross

are those legal in Canada for street use ?

thank you

106(1) of the HTA states modification of the OEM seat-belts/mounts in any way is illegal for street use. If you had a bad officer pull you over, it's $600 and 3 different tickets; Seat-belt removed, inoperative and modified, all which carry a $200 fine.

I've never had issues with mine, but it is in-fact illegal.

This harness is the only DOT approved harness.

Takata makes a DOT harness as well

[h4X6]

well if you leave the stock belts in, those tickets are null and void, you cannot get them...

the only ticket you COULD technically get is not wearing a seatbelt...

But you could fight it, stating you were wearing racing harnesses, and they are in fact safer then oem and regular seat belts... you would need to provide case law or statistics to prove your point.

I dont get why wearing aftermarket race harness (ones that are actually certified) arent allowed... hell you would think they would say good for you for wanting to make yourself safer and not die... the government is stupid sometimes.

[hozer]

well if you leave the stock belts in, those tickets are null and void, you cannot get them...

the only ticket you COULD technically get is not wearing a seatbelt...

But you could fight it, stating you were wearing racing harnesses, and they are in fact safer then oem and regular seat belts... you would need to provide case law or statistics to prove your point.

I dont get why wearing aftermarket race harness (ones that are actually certified) arent allowed... hell you would think they would say good for you for wanting to make yourself safer and not die... the government is stupid sometimes.

This is incorrect. If they are aware of these laws, you will receive all 3. In order to have harnesses, you would have had to:

a)modify the OEM mounts to even rig your harness, often times removing the original belt (tickets 1 and 2). I'm not aware of any harness that allows you to leave the OEM mounts and belts intact along with the harness.
b) due to the above, your OEM is inoperable as originally designed (ticket 3)


Aftermarket race harnesses are not allowed because they are far more unsafe in 99.99% street vehicles than 3 points for several reasons.

1) A harness is of 0 benefit without a cage; in fact its much more unsafe than a 3 point. Majority of harness users I've encountered have them sans cage and mounted improperly.

2) actually wearing a harness prevents a good shoulder check, they are designed to prohibit this very motion

Also be aware the DOT rating applies to the belt only, that does not cover your modifications to the OEM system, and therein lies the issue and rule of law.

I'm not saying you will get these tickets, I've been pulled over a few times and have not received them myself. It's an obscure rule I'm sure very few are aware of and most likely, you would be fine. That being said, I do know people that have received them and they are absolutely not fightable, the law is crystal clear.

Just know with harness, it's a chance you take.

[h4X6]

I had a cage and harness in my skyline, so mine were 100% correct.

as for the shoulder checks.. thats ********, i was able to have tight belts, and still able to do shoulder checks without issues...

wow the law is BS sometimes...

[Dragon Humper]

I have NEVER heard of anyone with a proper harness and cage getting a chicken sb1t ticket for having them. The NHRA approved belts are only good for 2 years before they need to be rewebbed. I have run 500hp cars with 35 year old DOT belts...which is safer?

Factory belts are only good for meeting the absolute min. requirement at the time. I would love to hear a Judges argument that your new belts (DOT or not) are somehow worse. On top of all of that, every province is different.



Jon.

[hozer]

I have NEVER heard of anyone with a proper harness and cage getting a chicken sb1t ticket for having them. The NHRA approved belts are only good for 2 years before they need to be rewebbed. I have run 500hp cars with 35 year old DOT belts...which is safer?

Factory belts are only good for meeting the absolute min. requirement at the time. I would love to hear a Judges argument that your new belts (DOT or not) are somehow worse. On top of all of that, every province is different.



Jon.

I'm not personally arguing the safety. I run a full cage and harnesses and would agree its safer. However, I've seen people get busted and fined. Regardless of the BS bureaucracy and ostensible safety concerns, fact is it remains illegal to do. The tickets vary from province to province, but the HTA applies to them all.

As for safety arguments, I'd say it has 0 to do with the belts themselves and more to do with how they are mounted and used. Maybe 2/10 belt setups I've seen are proper. Seen Home Depot bolts holding lap belts in, harness mounted to the floor etc... All sort of junk and this is probably why the law exists at all.

I only rant and rave because often young folk make these modifications, are pulled over without the correct education and have a bad attitude about it. Therefore, next time I get pulled over, officer Joe thinks he knows how I am and writes me the same ticket because Officer Steve went on about the jackass in a harness. I guarantee you they don't even know the law that would apply, but a bad attitude will encourage them to find it and share it with others.

OP said he wanted to keep it legal, modifying your OEM seatblets in any way, shape, or form is not. End of story Will you get ticketed for it? Probably not, but understand it is a possibility

[Special_K]

1) A harness is of 0 benefit without a cage; in fact its much more unsafe than a 3 point. Majority of harness users I've encountered have them sans cage and mounted improperly.

This is incorrect. You don't have to have a cage to have a safe harness. As long as the seat and harness are properly mounted with proper angles and proper grade bolts it's fine. I agree that having the shoulder angle too steep is very bad because in an accident the acting forces would crush you down into your seat potentially breaking your back.



My drift car has been through many strict tech inspections without a cage and with harness mounted to floor and it's even been complemented on the safety setup.

A cage would be best if you use a helmet for 100% of your driving but streat use with a cage and no helmet is actually far more dangerous because of the potential to split your head open hitting the cage. Padding a cage might help prevent this.

[hozer]

This is incorrect. You don't have to have a cage to have a safe harness. As long as the seat and harness are properly mounted with proper angles and proper grade bolts it's fine. I agree that having the shoulder angle too steep is very bad because in an accident the acting forces would crush you down into your seat potentially breaking your back.

My drift car has been through many strict tech inspections without a cage and with harness mounted to floor and it's even been complemented on the safety setup.

A cage would be best if you use a helmet for 100% of your driving but streat use with a cage and no helmet is actually far more dangerous because of the potential to split your head open hitting the cage. Padding a cage might help prevent this.

I agree with all your points, except having a harness without a cage is very dangerous in certain scenarios. In the event of a rollover, a 3 point is designed to allow you to 'slip' around laterally should the roof collapse on you. A harness will simply hold you there to be crushed.

The flip-side is having a cage to bash your head on as you've highlighted, which is far more likely IMO. Damed if ya do, damed if ya don't... The very reason these laws exist. Serious flaw either way you cut it

[Special_K]

I agree with all your points, except having a harness without a cage is very dangerous in certain scenarios. In the event of a rollover, a 3 point is designed to allow you to 'slip' around laterally should the roof collapse on you. A harness will simply hold you there to be crushed.

The flip-side is having a cage to bash your head on as you've highlighted, which is far more likely IMO. Damed if ya do, damed if ya don't... The very reason these laws exist. Serious flaw either way you cut it

You're right, I see what mean now about the danger of a harness in a rollover without a cage. Holding you upright while the roof caves in isn't great. Pro's and cons to each setup like you said

[Special_K]

la double post

[Dragon Humper]

The really dumb thing about all of this is the fact that..

A: with a 15+ year old vehicle, this is all moot, on top of that JDM vehicles already have non-DOT approved belts that don't even need to meet any regulation Fed. or Prov. (although Man. has it's head firmly in bum).

B: you could take your NHRA approved belts and mounting fixtures and blow the DOT crap out of the water and have an engineering report to back you up to fight any ticket. It is not illegal to IMPROVE any safety feature on any car, you just need some backup.

These rules were brought in soon after belts were made manditory from the car manufacturers 50 years ago to prevent people from removing them and need to be updated with a time limit around when you can modify. I don't think the Gov would be too comfortable getting behind rules that make you run 20 year old belts that are way past their prime if someone were to champion a class action to fight the current rules.

Can you get a ticket..sure, can you fight it and win...absolutely.

I must also add that a harness without a roll cage is a bad idea (as I have always said and has been said here). There are so many things that you are setting yourself up for it greatly out weighs the benefits of having the harness. And I mean a real cage, not that bolt together crapolla.





Jon.

[DarkCaporaL]

OP seems to be in Quebec.

You cannot modify or remove OEM seatbelts. When driving, technically, you'd also need to put your OEM seatbelt on top of your harness (not sure why you'd want to wear a harness on the street anyways). It only takes a cop on a bad day to give you a hard time.

Since you said you have a cage, keep in mind that it cannot obstruct the door opening. This means, generally, that half-cages are ok but full cages are not (since most of them obstruct the door in some way. If a cage obstructs a door opening, they can nail you on "modifying the structural integrity" and will force a re-certification on the car.

EDIT: Here's a 2006 guide they provided law enforcement to train them on what they can and cannot do when dealing with modified cars. It provides all the relevant law sections. It's in French though. http://www.teammasc.com/pdf_files/GU...NALISESAAQ.pdf