Few question regarding my EFR build march '15

[cobrAA]

Most ppl say stock should be fine but im at the limit.. not sure what to do. however surge tank is not an option for me due to limited trunk space already.

[steveo1502]

What's wrong with your trunk? Lol , a surge tank is very small, check out radium engineering

[hozer]

Most ppl say stock should be fine but im at the limit.. not sure what to do. however surge tank is not an option for me due to limited trunk space already.

Yeah you are at the limit for sure. And WTF you have in your trunk? I have amps, subs (which I pull out on the track...), surge tanks, meth tanks and enough room for a Costco haul.

Surge tank is about the size of a 4L jug of milk.

[cobrAA]

Yeah you are at the limit for sure. And WTF you have in your trunk? I have amps, subs (which I pull out on the track...), surge tanks, meth tanks and enough room for a Costco haul.

Surge tank is about the size of a 4L jug of milk.

can it be mounted anywhere in the trunk ? or it has to be under the gas tank, only way it could maybe fit is behind my tower bar.. if not, i have a hockey bag and a full gear of detailing i carry around.. i need trunk space.

[hozer]

can it be mounted anywhere in the trunk ? or it has to be under the gas tank, only way it could maybe fit is behind my tower bar.. if not, i have a hockey bag and a full gear of detailing i carry around.. i need trunk space.

Can put it wherever you desire. Limited only to the length of line you buy

For reference:

[Skym]

If using a surge tank, look at running teflon lined fuel hoses to prevent fuel smell in the cabin.

Also a Sard fuel surge tank / collector tank has the fuel pumps mounted inside to provide a quieter noise (if used for road use).

Also from what I understand, the Tomei oil pump does require an enlarged sump. It's similar to the Group-A oil pump but has adjustable pressure.

The oil pump is application specific, so buy the oil pump to match the parts you are running inside the engine, application.

Like for example, if you intend to rev outside stock rev limiters a Tomei oil pump is advisable, as it provides more pressure, volume (also from what I understand the higher volume is matched to wider piston, etc clearances with race engines).

The N1 oil pump has higher pressure (shimming the relief valve spring which is an old trick) because at higher rpm the stock oil pump doesn't provide enough oil pressure, but the volume remains the same as the piston clearances are tighter and using stock rev limiter. Need to talk to a experienced RB engine builder on what is best as far as oil pumps go for the application, engine.

As partly stated in post's above the main problem is a drop in oil pressure at higher rpm and while cornering (above 1.2 G's which can be easily done with a stock GTR and drifting it, but mainly occurs with semi slicks or slicks while cornering) and can happen suddenly (sudden drop is seen with datalogging via ECU).

Even GTS engines, chassis can reach over 1.0 G's while cornering with slick tyres (engine has an enlarged capacity sump) -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIzgYJJozqo

With some aftermarket ECU's (Link, ViPEC ECU, etc) you can rig up a oil pressure sensor to one of the inputs on the ECU and set some parameters on ECU so the ECU automatically rev limit's the engine to prevent damage when oil pressure drops below a certain value. If drops to 0 the ECU automatically shuts engine off. It's commonly used on rally cars that drift, etc to prevent engine failure and would have to contact Link in NZ to ask how to set it up or look at their forum which has a guide / instructions on how to set it up on ECU side.

Also look at Tomei crate engine specs as a guide on what needs to be changed at what hp level. It does state the Tomei oil pump requires an enlarged sump.

[cobrAA]

thanks skym , i went with tomei pump because its very well built and offer 56 liter of flow compared to some higher flowing like reimax and hks at 70 liter so theres less chance of emptying the sump.

Now I'm thinking.. lots of supra guy and even ford gt runs the walbro e85 pump at 700whp so I'm wondering if I could simply get away with this pump and upgraded fuel rail and line without going surge tank. thought ?

Also, I dont have hicas anymore, could i use those line for fuel ?

[hozer]

thanks skym , i went with tomei pump because its very well built and offer 56 liter of flow compared to some higher flowing like reimax and hks at 70 liter so theres less chance of emptying the sump.

Now I'm thinking.. lots of supra guy and even ford gt runs the walbro e85 pump at 700whp so I'm wondering if I could simply get away with this pump and upgraded fuel rail and line without going surge tank. thought ?

Also, I dont have hicas anymore, could i use those line for fuel ?

I think you'd be totally fine. Surge tank is really only needed for track applications as the only point of it is to make sure your fuel pump is never starved of fuel; a situation I don't think you could ever create on the street.

As for hicas lines, yes you can use them but finding a good solution for fittings on a steel line is a losing endeavor. You'd save effort pulling them all out and running proper -8 lines in their place.

[Bruizer]

If something fails and you didn't listen to the strong recommendations of the builder, would he still give you a bit of warranty?

If you and the builder don't agree on as much as possible sometimes its a good idea to check out other builders or take a shot at it yourself. IF you trust your builder and his experience, why not take his advice? What's a few more $k to ensure you have good continuity between good parts when you're this far in?

[cobrAA]

If something fails and you didn't listen to the strong recommendations of the builder, would he still give you a bit of warranty?

If you and the builder don't agree on as much as possible sometimes its a good idea to check out other builders or take a shot at it yourself. IF you trust your builder and his experience, why not take his advice? What's a few more $k to ensure you have good continuity between good parts when you're this far in?

I did listen to most of his advice, but he's more known for his work around drift car so sometime its okay to doubt his thought since they can be more related to drift-endurance and forget that my car will be driven 80% of the time in downtown stop and go ( limited to 70 kmh street) filled with pothole.

And no he is not giving me any warranty because thats how the aftermarket-scene works. no one gives warranty lol.

As for the fuel issue, my tuner told me they tuned luc's car with stock line with no issues so I'm sure i will be fine with my actual setup, he did mention a fuel rail with double entry wouldn't be a bad idea but not necessary by any means.

[Bruizer]

Well then, if you get no warranty from him, tell him to do what he's told (whatever your decision on specific parts is) because you pay him. Done deal.

But while you're getting even more parts, you should do the surge tank, twin pumps and a better transmission. Maybe 3 pumps in case 1 fails.

[hozer]

But while you're getting even more parts, you should do the surge tank, twin pumps and a better transmission. Maybe 3 pumps in case 1 fails.

This is a tune issue not a pump issue. Tune in a fail safe to throw the car into limp mode if a pump blows. Adding more pumps is not a safety redundancy and should only be used if you truly need the fuel; if not it simply gives you more pumps to fail.

Surge tank is 0% useful if the car won't be tracked and just makes your cabin loud with fuel pump noise.

[Skym]

thanks skym , i went with tomei pump because its very well built and offer 56 liter of flow compared to some higher flowing like reimax and hks at 70 liter so theres less chance of emptying the sump.

You're welcome.

But Tomei still recommend a bigger capacity sump to suit. Need to do the calculations which will tell you the sump capacity needed and take into account g's uncovering pickup while cornering (winged sump with one way trap doors), etc.

Now I'm thinking.. lots of supra guy and even ford gt runs the walbro e85 pump at 700whp so I'm wondering if I could simply get away with this pump and upgraded fuel rail and line without going surge tank. thought ?

Surge tank (also known as a collector tank) is usually only needed on racetrack when there's high cornering g's, high fuel requirements (high rpm) and low fuel level in fuel tank. If keep fuel tank full there shouldn't be any issues there on the street, as it should have baffling around the fuel pump itself at factory. But it's safe to have a surge tank incase you decide to do some trackdays or reach higher cornering g's on the motorway in a lower gear.

Up to 700hp at engine (around 400-430awkw x 1.341 for awhp) you can run single entry fuel rail (Sard or similar which can run in single entry if plug the middle of the fuel rail, etc) with a single fuel pump. Then upgrade to duel entry later on if the extra fuel is needed. I think above 700hp at engine they recommend to go duel entry due to fuel requirements, reliability.

From what I understand, dual entry fuel rail was designed to eliminate the damper FPR (less things to fail and most likely will fail with higher fuel pressure), as with the dual entry fuel rail the fuel enters both sides and collides in the middle (where it exits to the fuel pressure FPR, Sard, Tomei or similar US made FPR) which creates the damping effect.

The other reason was the fuel pumps didn't have enough lph to feed the engine, so had to run 2x pumps which most likely is not needed these days with higher lph fuel pumps and boosting the voltage to the fuel pump.

The fuel pump won't flow higher lph or the rated lph without enough voltage to it, at least 13.5 volts+ by hardwiring the fuel pump or using a boost a pump device which you can make yourself if good at electronics and takes into account voltage fluctuations due to aircon, lights, etc (voltage drops to fuel pump when you turn those on). Hardwiring is the most reliable way.

But the problem is your moving more fuel from a hot engine bay to fuel tank via the fuel return hose / fuel pressure FPR, so the fuel tends to heat up inside the fuel tank. On a N1 GTR racecar they run a inline fuel cooler because they hardwire the fuel pump and eliminates this fuel heating up problem. Some mount the fuel cooler core (Setrab, Mocal, HKS?, etc) just above the intercooler, next to powersteering oilcooler which can be bought from Nismo (for the 350Z / 370z?), HKS, etc (powersteering cooler is a must have for trackdays).

With the single entry fuel rail the damper fpr creates that wave which meets the wave which fuel pressure FPR sends back inside the fuel rail. At least that's how I understand it. Best to consult the online patent for the damper fpr to understand more about how the damper fpr works.

Also, I dont have hicas anymore, could i use those line for fuel ?

Some do use those HICAS hard lines, some just remove them and run braided lines as mentioned above. If running E85 you have to use Methonal compatible fuel lines, fuel pump, FPR, injectors, etc. The mild steel HICAS hard lines are not a good idea (good for hydraulics but not much else). From memory the fuel line has to be stainless or methonal compatible to handle methonal or E85 fuel.

If want to know how noisey a external fuel pump can get on a GTR, listen to the sound in the background -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIFNA7_2mGU

That's big bird from the Fast and the Furious movie.

[Bruizer]

This is a tune issue not a pump issue. Tune in a fail safe to throw the car into limp mode if a pump blows. Adding more pumps is not a safety redundancy and should only be used if you truly need the fuel; if not it simply gives you more pumps to fail.

Surge tank is 0% useful if the car won't be tracked and just makes your cabin loud with fuel pump noise.

How would your ecu know if a pump failed on a multi pump system?

a buddy of mine took out his engine street driving. Had less than a 1/2 tank and starved the fuel pump while taking a tight radius long sweeping corner. Surge tank would have saved it.

My pumps are mounted on rubber bushes and They aren't in my pilot cabin so I don't hear them.

[cobrAA]

Wiringspecialists selling a complete ECU harness for BNR32.... would you do it ? I mean, how bad the signal can be on our 25yr old harness if the car isnt winter driven ?

I changed most of my sensor last year and my tuner hacked the harness to swap maf to map and wideband signal so I'm wondering if it's really worth the 450usd + labour to redo what my tuner did to the oem harness ( will likely charge me a few hours again)

However their tranny harness with alternator and starter is tempting me since I felt my starter wasnt perfect ( could be the starter itself or harness) and my tach isnt reading perfect, so maybe the signal isnt good..