Circuit R compounds

[GTR-Dad]

I'm thinking this is the year to start running some sticky rubber for the Monday night lapping series and could some input from those who have real life experience with R compound tires. Wheels are R34 18x10's.

Format is one lap warm up, followed by about 10 minutes of hotlapping, and a cool down lap. The track is on the small side, but there's one straight where I can hit 180-190 km/hr on street tires and corners ranging from 50-100 km/hr. There shouldn't be any trouble getting heat into the tires and greasyness is definately unwanted.

I think I can fit a bit more rubber than the 265 35's I've been running, but probably don't want to get into rubbing issues, so will limit width to about 275mm.

Candidates are:
Yokohama A048
BFG - g-Force R1
Michelin Pilot Sport Cup
Hoosier R6

Please post up experience with these or others, particularly if the others worked better for you than these.

Cheers,
Dan

[hozer]

I have found that the Nitto NT05 are my favorite thus far, especially if you are running them as street tires and track tires. I'll compare them against the 2 on your list that I have used

PSC: Tires are great high preformance street tires and last quite a while. Good in all sorts of conditions and a pretty reasonable ride to them... They are however wayyyy to expensive for what you get. I can replace my NT05's twice for what it costs for 1 set of PSC's. NT05 were noisier, rougher riding and faster wearing than the PSC's but are an infinitely better track tire in my experience. If your car isn't a DD and street performance is not your primary concern, steer away from the PSC

A048: So damn loud... only real complaint. Comparable to NT05, but I find the NT05's just feel better in the corners, can't really explain it but they just do. Also like the design on the NT05 better, just preference though.

Really dig the NT05's, great tire for track but still very streetable.

[aN4rk1]

Really dig the NT05's, great tire for track but still very streetable.

I thought the NT05s were not R compounds? I know for a fact that the NT01s are R compound as I use them on my DD
EDIT: If you are talking about the NT05-Rs then yes they are R compound.

The NT01s are absolutely fantastic tires in the corners. In short, these tires grip like a mother....
They are a bit noisy yes and not the best thing in the rain. However, if your suspension is setup properly, wear will be pretty good
and ride comfort isn't bad at all in my books. The best part of the tires though is that they have TONS of rubber (not tread) on them so when the tread wears out, they become basically slicks with TONS of life left in them. Price is very reasonable compared to some of your options.

My vote is for the NT01s.

[hozer]

Missed that you wanted specifically R compounds. I was referring to the standard NT05 (which I think is better than some of the R's listed)

[GTR-Dad]

Thx for the input. I was talking R compounds, but only because I want to reduce lap times. I'd try a non-R if I thought it help me go faster!

What about the Nitto R comps? If the street tire is that great, is the R compound better?

Dan

[Terrh]

NT01's are good.

Hoosiers are the best but they don't last on the street. Do you have a torque split controller? my R compounds did not like the way my GTR handled torque bias, they'd lose grip if they spun, and the GTR wants to spin the rears exiting corners all the time.

[hozer]

Thx for the input. I was talking R compounds, but only because I want to reduce lap times. I'd try a non-R if I thought it help me go faster!

What about the Nitto R comps? If the street tire is that great, is the R compound better?

Dan

Depends solely on how much "streetability" or "trackability" you want. Better depends largely on what you expect out of the tire.

Gonna come out and make a bold statement that the best street/track/cost tire overall is the NT05. I have used R compounds and the trade off is not worth it for me personally, and some of them didn't even hold up to the NT05 as I said before. If your willing to replace your tire more often than most I would get the NT01, but here in Calgary, the roads simply suck to much to street R compounds. I have to change my Nt05's often enough, R compound would not help.

I only track my car every other week and it gets driven everyday between then so comfort, weather performance and tread wear is not something I'm willing to pass up for a marginally better lap (if any difference at all). I would try some different ones tbh, get some NT05's run em, if you want more track get some NT01's, you want even more track get some R6's.

Also as a side note R compounds have been know to cause issues on skylines, the AWD system functions in part due to slipping tires and lost power... If your tires don't allow for this you may not be going as fast as you could be because your not benefiting from the AWD. In an extreme case I would imagine that it could start breaking things (tie rods probably). Nissan didn't factory supply R's for this very reason I presume.

[NismoS-tune]

I've heard good things about Bridgestone's RE-11 but haven't had the chance to need new tires yet. Still burning through my ever sticky RE-01Rs I don't know (or care) if they are R compound but they are really sticky. They're not the cheapest but most of the high end stuff is expensive.

[bobbo]

I've got Dunlop Starspecs http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....t+Z1+Star+Spec. I've used them for street, trackdays, Solosprint and AutoX. I've been VERY happy with them and they've been holding up remarkably well.

[GTR-Dad]

NT01's are good.

Hoosiers are the best but they don't last on the street. Do you have a torque split controller? my R compounds did not like the way my GTR handled torque bias, they'd lose grip if they spun, and the GTR wants to spin the rears exiting corners all the time.

I'll be swapping wheels for track days, so the only street these tires will see is there and back. If I'm lazy, they might see a day or two after the track day as well.

I've got a torque split controller, but not one that locks the transfer case. It let's me control how much torque reduction you get during cornering. I can dial up the front torque to minimize wheelspin during corner exit, but I don't want to bump into power understeer either. I can balance it though with suspension setup and torque split.

Depends solely on how much "streetability" or "trackability" you want. Better depends largely on what you expect out of the tire.

I would try some different ones tbh, get some NT05's run em, if you want more track get some NT01's, you want even more track get some R6's.

Also as a side note R compounds have been know to cause issues on skylines, the AWD system functions in part due to slipping tires and lost power... If your tires don't allow for this you may not be going as fast as you could be because your not benefiting from the AWD. In an extreme case I would imagine that it could start breaking things (tie rods probably). Nissan didn't factory supply R's for this very reason I presume.

Good input. Thx! What tire widths are you aware of that have been involved in damage?

I'm also curious about what you mean by 'lost power' in the AWD control context. My observation is that torque split setpoint is based on relative slip between fronts and rears, longitudinal g's (it'll send torque to the front with NO slip if you're accellerating), lateral g's (harder cornering = less front torque), and I've heard that it uses input from steering wheel angle, but I haven't verified this.

As described above, I'm OK with swapping tires for track days, so I'll probably go fairly agressive. I've run the Dunlop Direzzas for a season and like them very much. Just want more grip! I've also heard the RE11's are nice, but I think they compare more with the Starspecs than a full R comp.

Dan

[hozer]

I'll be swapping wheels for track days, so the only street these tires will see is there and back. If I'm lazy, they might see a day or two after the track day as well.

I've got a torque split controller, but not one that locks the transfer case. It let's me control how much torque reduction you get during cornering. I can dial up the front torque to minimize wheelspin during corner exit, but I don't want to bump into power understeer either. I can balance it though with suspension setup and torque split.



Good input. Thx! What tire widths are you aware of that have been involved in damage?

I'm also curious about what you mean by 'lost power' in the AWD control context. My observation is that torque split setpoint is based on relative slip between fronts and rears, longitudinal g's (it'll send torque to the front with NO slip if you're accellerating), lateral g's (harder cornering = less front torque), and I've heard that it uses input from steering wheel angle, but I haven't verified this.

As described above, I'm OK with swapping tires for track days, so I'll probably go fairly agressive. I've run the Dunlop Direzzas for a season and like them very much. Just want more grip! I've also heard the RE11's are nice, but I think they compare more with the Starspecs than a full R comp.

Dan

Tire widths that were on the damaged car were huge lol 295's but it was largely due to the fact that to much power was being kept on the road because of the tires. Now I have no clue how old these tie rods were or what condition they were in, but consensus was that it was because of the tires.

When I said lost power, I meant it as in lost power being layed to the pavement, bad word to have used though now that I read over it.

I'm unsure of what setup your torque controller allows you to have but from the factory I believe that torque does not go to the front wheels until your rears start to slip. Again from the factory it was setup for oversteer and the harder you corner the LESS power it sends to the front.

[hozer]

So based on my understanding of factory attesa settings, the system doesn't work and electronically split torque unless slippage is happening somewhere. It can vary the torque based on the 3-axis sensor but I dont think it happens without slipping... I could however be wrong on this

[GTR-Dad]

So based on my understanding of factory attesa settings, the system doesn't work and electronically split torque unless slippage is happening somewhere. It can vary the torque based on the 3-axis sensor but I dont think it happens without slipping... I could however be wrong on this

I've seen front torque applied rolling on throttle in 5th at highway speeds on dry pavement. Slippage under these conditions seems a remote possibility, but even if there was some slippage involved, I'd expect at least that much on the track even with R compounds.

My TSC allows me to attenuate the lateral g's reported to the ATESSA computer via a potentiometer. If you turn it all the way, it tells the AWD computer the car is going straight even if you're pulling a full g cornering. Of course this would result in severe understeer and you wouldn't go to that extreme....

Yes, the 295 section would have something to do with the reported damage. When your loads keep going up, something's got to give. If the tire won't break traction, something else will break. The only thing wrong with simply replacing the broken part with something stronger is that sooner or later you end up breaking something very expensive or with a long delivery time. I think there are many GTR's running R compounds without drivetrain or suspension failures, so I'll keep my tire width reasonable and drive smoothly.

Cheers,
Dan

[Super_Dude]

R34 gtr wheels are 18x9 not 18x10

Nitto is owned by toyo

nt05=r1r
nt01=r888

Same compounds but nitto uses a tread pattern that is cheaper to produce and thus a worse tire overall.

As for R comps it really depends how much life/grip your looking for

wanna clean house and go threw a few sets a season? Go with 275/35 hankook z214 super soft compounds.

Wanna be go a bit faster and last the whole season with an affordable tire? Go with 245/40 nt01's

There are tons of tires in between these to suit your needs. Easiest thing to do is find someone running something simiar to you and see what they like. I guess thats what your doing here but I would check out what high power evo and sti guys like.

Unfortuantly all the best r comps arent available in north america. Bridgestone RE11S, hankook td's, yokohama a050, et

Dont forget, r comps fit wider than regular tires and keep your street tires on for rainy days.

[support@feastauto]

Dan,
I wouldn't rule out the affordable RS-R option through Federal. The RS-R 595 has raised quite a stir in Japan. Making big features in certain grip circles. Tsukuba Circuit for instance, many many drivers are taking this affordable tire option and nearly matching high dollar S tire lap times.

As for abuse and what not, they can & will hold up. Ive personally put a ton of laps on one complete set and they never once got greasy. Even after lengthy use (30+ minutes)

Only draw back I would have to say is the poor tread rating. Around 140 I think. And that they are sometimes a bit heavier than others on the market due to having heavily wound steel belted sidewalls.

Here is the pattern for you.