do you wanna know what a PPG dogbox is ??

[malibusst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fA94Sxiu4c&eurl=http://www.teknotik.com/jdmrides/forum/showthread.php?t=23131

cool find off another forum...

[BurlyR32]

Thats pretty cool, any idea what they run for, cost wise?

[bignate]

I'll likely be looking for a straight cut dogbox come spring. Would love a PPG box but i gotta look into the pricing.

[CanadianGTR]

XS-Engineering is a dealer (or at least listed as one)
Why not drop them a line?

http://forums.gtrcanada.com/forumdisplay.php?f=86

[bignate]

XS-Engineering is a dealer (or at least listed as one)
Why not drop them a line?

http://forums.gtrcanada.com/forumdisplay.php?f=86

yea I'm still in the researching phase right now, I dont wanna start pestering dealers until I have some cash to throw down. You know, Sometimes I'm glad I'm not rich because it makes me spend a whole ton of time planning and researching while I save up for my next major mod, rather than just throwing money at the car. While my car may never be fastest GTR around when its done, I'm hoping it will be the most well thought out.

[CanadianGTR]

What sort of application you looking at?

I honestly think its a waste for anything less than a dedicated track car.

[bignate]

What sort of application you looking at?

I honestly think its a waste for anything less than a dedicated track car.

dedicated circuit/time attack monster. Looking at a responsive 600whp max. For the abuse the car will be taking I dont think the stock box will last long. I need a clutch and my synchros are going anyways so I figure I might as well build the box while its out right. The fun part will be learning a new driving style as driving with a dog box is a much different technique than a standard synchronized box.

http://www.par-engineering.com/faq.htm

^^ this is a very good read, But I've been warned by a few SAU guys to stay away from PAR.

[CanadianGTR]

I was pondering the idea of developing a no-lift-shift unit for the GTR. That would go well with the dog box I think.

[bignate]

I was pondering the idea of developing a no-lift-shift unit for the GTR. That would go well with the dog box I think.

copied from the PAR site:

Methods of Changing Gear.

The following is some info regarding shifting gear and face dog wear. I am in the fortunate position where I have a good amount of knowledge on the subject, as I understand the mechanical side and the user (driver) side equally well.

N.B. For succesful gear shifting, remember that it is critical to ensure that all mechanical elements between the drivers hand and the dog faces are in good order and properly set. This includes the gear linkage in the chassis!

Successful up-shifting, (defined as fast and non dog-damaging) will be achieved by fully moving the dog ring as rapidly as possible from one gear to the next, preferably with the engine's driving load removed until the shift is completed. (The opposite is true of a synchromesh gearbox as used in passenger cars, where slow movement helps). It should be remembered that it is not possible to damage the dogs when fully engaged (in gear). The damage can only take place when initiating contact during a shift, (the `danger zone`) therefore this element must be made as short as possible. If a driver moves the gear lever slowly, or if the linkage is not rigid and effective, dog wear will occur. We always recommend lightweight yet solid rod linkage, not cables ideally.

I list below the different methods of up-shifting that are used in racing most commonly. The best at the top, the worst at the bottom:

Automated (semi automated).

The movement of the dog ring is powered and the engine is cut / re-instated in a co-ordinated manner. Gear-shifts take milliseconds. This system produces zero dog wear when set up well. It is not applicable to most cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing.

Manual with engine cut.

This system is almost as good as an automated one as long as the driver pulls the lever very quickly. Again it is not applicable to many cars, but it illustrates that speed of shift is a good thing. A `cheat` version of this is to shift on the engine rev limiter, which can work well. With this system it is especially important to move the lever ultra fast, otherwise the engine will be reinstated during partial dog engagement, causing damage. The damage can usually be felt by the driver.

Manual.

Best method: With no assistance from the engine management, the driver must lift off the throttle sufficiently to allow the dog ring to be pulled out of engagement. He should then stay off the throttle long enough to allow the dog ring to engage with the next gear. In practice, the driver can move the gear lever faster than he can move his foot off and back on to the throttle. Therefore the effective method is to apply load to the gear lever with your hand and then lift the throttle foot off and back on to the pedal as fast as physically possible. In lifting your foot, the loaded gear lever will almost involuntarily flick to the next gear before the foot is re-applied to the throttle.

Another method is to load the gear lever with your hand, stay flat on the throttle and dab the clutch to release the dog ring. The overall effect on the gear shift is similar to the above method, but clutch wear may become a big issue.

The worst method (most destructive and definitely slowest) is to attempt to change gear in a `passenger car / synchromesh` way, i.e. lifting off the throttle, dipping the clutch, moving the gear lever, letting the clutch up and re-instating the throttle. The method causes unnecessary clutch wear, does absolutely nothing to help come out of gear and usually causes dog wear whilst engaging the next gear. This wear is due to several reasons. Firstly, it is impossible for a driver to co-ordinate the complicated sequence of all five physical movements accurately. Consequently the engagement dogs often find themselves engaging whilst the throttle is applied. The lever is usually pulled more slowly as it was not pre-loaded, lengthening the `danger zone`.

Successful down-shifting, has similar rules applied regarding speed of shift. Unloading the dogs is done in the opposite manner obviously. Whilst braking, the dogs must be unloaded by either touching the throttle pedal or- my preferred method- by dipping the clutch. However, one sharp dab of clutch or

throttle is appropriate per shift. Continued pressure on either will cause dog damage for different reasons. `Blipping the throttle` just before engagement is advisable if the rev drops between gears are over 1300 rpm, as this will aid engagement and stabilise the car.

This is a subject which can be much expanded on, but I feel that these are the basics, which I hope are of use.

I think downshifting with this technique would take some getting used to.

[CanadianGTR]

I was racing Van Diemens with an elite sequential dog box and had no problems driving it like I normally did. It was a LITTLE bit trickier because you have to time it well or you basically get locked out of the gear and you have to re-match the speed.

I didn't find it difficult at all thought, maybe an H-Pattern would be different?

[GTR-Dad]

I was pondering the idea of developing a no-lift-shift unit for the GTR. That would go well with the dog box I think.

My car is set up for this, but I haven't played with it even once yet. I don't think it'll be _that_ hard on the gearbox though.

Dan

[Browny_R31]

another adelaide company doing great things. PPG is based in Adelaide (where i live) and pretty much every WRX here that has any mods is running a PPG gearbox.

If i ever blow my rb25det box ill get a PPG box. they are fairly cheap when it comes down to it simply cause they r so strong. Since the WRX destroys gearboxs so easily, its cheaper to get the PPG one and be done with it. Makes nice sounds to... the wirring

[mcfly]

ppg dog box internals are 9300~ with billet secelctors and not including the upgraded main shaft.

A downside is that they still use a number of oem parts. When something breaks it's the oem parts unfortunately.

helical internals that they sell are half as much.


If you get one of these you can't ***** out on shifts, slam it or dont change.

[PopolZ]

do they have to be rebuilt every 5K KM like the other dog box?

[mcfly]

No dog box has to be rebuilt every 5k km.
You should inspect them at least that often and replace any worn parts but thats not to say people don't drive them for more then 5k between inspections.

it's largly based on how you drive and what sort of driving you are doing.