who are you going to vote for?

[cortexx]

Yeah but if we did those things we'd be no better than any other third world shithole. Handing out death as a punishment is barbaric and should remain where it belongs: The dark ages.

Well murdering people and raping women is also barbaric , punishment should fit the crime. I have no problem issueing death penalties , infact i'd have no problem being the executioner myself for some people. (example - the 2 basterds that raped and killed the little 8 year old girl in woodstock 2 years ago ). NO PROBLEM AT ALL KICKING THE CHAIR OUT UNDERNEATH THEIR FEET!.

And selling drugs is just as bad as murdering , your contributing to someones misery and quick demise.

WHy the hell should the tax payer pay for inmates with life sentances to sit in comfort on the intenet watching netflicks and posting hardlife stories on their facebook pages to attract women with convict fetishes ? I'd rather they were recycled and feed their bodies to the animals in the zoo ...

Another idea I had was to give them a choice of death OR donating their living body to medical research where they could be given aids and then they can be used to test the cures on.

Of course this will never happen because we live in pussyville society and we tolerate the scum that spit in our faces.

Why does a country have nuclear weapons ? they dont intend to use them , it's a deterant that has such a devastating result that no one dares rattle the cage. Same with the death sentance !

And on a related note , Brantford where i run a business and also used to live has now got a lower crime rate . Do you know how ? because the local mayor reduced the narcotics squad down to 4 officers so that they process less cases . My 9 year old kid was offered dope by one of the old guys living on our street known to be a drug pusher and when we called the cops , they said they were too busy dealing with the crack houses and meth labs to go chasing after dope dealers.

Thats why i moved out of brantford ! - is this the society you embrace to raise your kids in ? or would you like to see someone with balls to make some radical changes for the better and safety of the average citizen.

My brother is on a project in Bharain at the moment working for the Arabs on their oil platforms , Saudi has a pretty brutal punishment system for major criminals but there is practically no crime - everyone is too afraid to commit any. He feels safer there than he does back at home in England .

[raijin-xiii]

Life insurance can be pennies compaird to government aid.
And my family didn't have any since like a large portion of Toronto/Canadian famlies we were New immigrants. We wouldn't have anything if it weren't for goverment EDIT: Society assistance.
You guys are argueing against a welfare state not the Canadian welfare system.

Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk

Pennies? It's supposed to cover your needs tailored to your specific situation if your spouse dies for years after. Mortgage, funeral costs...all debts plus living expenses. Don't give me that "pennies" crap. You choose your own coverage.
And how does being a new immigrant change how you get insurance? How about why should us Canadians pay for people new to Canada. This isn't a ******* charity. Welfare should have strict requirements or at least similar to those imposed on obtaining OAS.

[cortexx]

How about all the immigrants calling for refuge status as they land , they are paid a monthly handout twice the national pension rate that a canadian gets after working and paying his taxes all his life - how does that sit with you guys ?

When i landed here 14 years ago from England i had to prove my ability to bring enough cash to support myself , My Canadian wife had to sponsor me and was financially responsible for me for 10 years , immigration costs including medicals and tests for diseases that dont even exist in my home country like TB , diptheria and rabies had to be paid for by me and then i had to wait 12 months for my landed papers and ohip coverage.

3 years later i went to Royal bank to apply for a loan under the immigrant small business startup program that is underwritten by the government to help new immigrants start their own businesses . I was turned down for a loan for $60k because apparently I came from the wrong country , the program was for asian and eastern communities because apparently they are prepapred to work harder and are less of a risk . APPARENTLY eurpeans , North americans and others are more likely to throw in the towel and go bankrupt.

I went to See my bank manager at TD canada trust wherei held a $140k mortgage and asked for her advise , I was told the same thing would probably happen if i applied through TD because all the approvals were done in a government office in Toronto. She instead gave me a personal loan secured against my house and 3 years to pay it off ( paid it off in 12 months ).

Now I have no problem paying my own way to come here etc , it's a privaledge to be able to live here for me , but what i do have a problem is that if i was from East India , Pakistan , China or a few other places ITS ALL FREE , and you get LUMP SUMS OF CASH to help you come here and sponge off the system.

Not to mention the political correctness here makes the air almost unbreathable. But thats a different rant altogether !

[cortexx]

Exactly! If a loved one suddenly passes away and you are left in a rut, A life insurance policy should keep them on their feet.

My mom raised me and took care of herself on less than 20,000 a year with no father in the picture who payed child support maybe 1/4 of the year...but she continued to push hard and work at life.

I have a problem with people on welfare who have kids every 3 to 5 years not because they want kids or plan to give them bright futures but rather to get a bigger child tax credit, and a bigger monthly cheque

No effense to your mother in any way, i'm sure what she did most people couldn't do. I'm fed up with my tax dollars going towards people who are frankly too lazy to get a job and blame the world for their problems...I have no problem with people such as your mother who actually needed the system. Unfortunatly it's the first group that makes up most of welfare dependants.

This is a similar scenario to my upbringing for my brother and myself , we nothing in the way of material possessions , but we had an advantage in life because our mother taught us great values and encouraged us to work hard for what we want. Infact we had a very happy childhood. I cringe when i see this newer generation of kids that cant string 3 words together because they only communicate on their Iphones , they don't look you in the eye when you tlak to them and they still live at home in their twenties ? i mean WTF - I left home at 17 .

It's not the kids fault , it's 110% the parents fault but no - lets not blame it on the parents , lets blame it on the SCHOOLS, todays society, rap music and TV - what ever happened to talking to your kids and TEACHING them a few things.

Everytime i have some 19 year old white trash "niggah" or "thuggy" walk into my store with his pants on the ground and his weener flapping in the wind with his thumbs furiously whapping his iphone i feel like smacking his head off his shoulders , and then id like to smack his parents for letting him be that way !

I appologise in advance if i offend any of you guys , I can be a bit blunt sometimes - BTW happy Easter

[RABBIT]

It's compounded over time...

Sent from my HTC Magic using Tapatalk

[raijin-xiii]

it's a privilege to be able to live here

This is what a lot of people don't understand. They think it's a right. I'm not against immigrants, I'm just against people who don't work for anything and expect handouts for nothing and bitch about stuff when they don't contribute to society (girlfriends, friends without jobs, etc also count lol).

I'm pretty right-winged you could say, and that's probably because of all of these people that ask for everything and give nothing back and complain the whole way through. Friends that can't repay small debts, selfish pricks that wouldn't give you the time of day, and anyone else that I'm sure everyone personally has a problem with. I live by a system of respect and unfortunately most of this sort of thing nowadays revolves around money.

People that scrape by on welfare without any intent on making an effort to get anywhere? **** you. Loaned money from someone and bitch when they ask for repayment? **** you. Crying about your life because you had three kids by the time you were 21 and whine about not getting enough money to live from the government? **** you.

Equality is a joke. If you're not putting anything forward, get the **** out. People deserve what they work for; the world belongs to those who hustle. All this dead weight population is destroying everything the human race has worked so hard to achieve (in a sense). Sustaining these people might be fine if resources and money weren't finite, but in the real world, why the hell should they be helped if they have no intention of helping themselves.

I'm not saying all this because I come from a family of means by any stretch (both of my sides of grandparents are immigrants to Canada from Croatia and Ukraine who came here with not too much, didn't live off of any handouts whatsoever but opened business and got jobs instead), but I've grown to understand that if you want something you need to get the **** out there and work for it; I understand that there's a difference between a crutch (loans, parents, etc.) that is temporary support until you're self-sustainable and a goddamn electric wheelchair to sit in the rest of your life (welfare and other free handouts) that you probably use to bitch about a lack of access because there's no ramp or some ****.

I am so passionate about this that I've practically ditched pretty much all of my friends except for like two (because they were all mooching, dishonest bastards), I'm moving out a couple weeks (I graduate next week from college) because I feel that this place is turning into one of those mentioned-above electric wheelchairs, and I've never held a debt for something that I didn't absolutely need (I've purchased all of my cars including my GTR with cash for example -- mortgage etc will have a sizable down-payment...not that 10% or whatever joke minimum requirement). On the other hand, I'm absolutely willing to help those who are dedicated and are willing to work for what they want from life (some of you from this forum even...you know who you are) -- I'm using myself as a crutch.

If you need money to get you through a tough patch (note: this doesn't include your entire ******* life), find another way to do it. Governments, limit the amount of time people can be on social programs at the least. I'm sure there are lots of cases where people are freshly disabled/lost a job/whatever but in most cases, they had ample time to come up with security like insurance (trust me, they cover pretty much anything), emergency funds, or something else. If you're out of work and can't even come up with next month's rent, guess what? You're probably living way beyond your friggin means and I consider you financially retarded.

I'm probably coming off as a self-righteous douchebag, but I'm really open to your opinions. Please, if you have a retort, I'd love to hear it.

Edit: saying "equality is a joke" is referring to the amount of anything people are looking for just because they exist. I'm absolutely all for equal opportunities, but my whole rant pretty much implies that I think.

Edit 2: Some numbers to attach to some of this argument:
"For the fiscal year ending March 31, 2011, about $6.6 Billion of the federal government's Canada Social Transfer to the provinces and territories will be for welfare and social programs."
"Canada's population is estimated 33,739,900
In March 1995, there were 3,070,900 people on welfare in Canada.
By 2005, that number had dropped to 1, 682, 500.
In March 2009, there were 1, 711, 500 people on welfare in Canada.
The percentage of the Canadian population on welfare in March 2005 was 5.2%.
By March 2009, that proportion had decreased to 5.1%."

Wow that's kind of disgusting to me that 95% of the population is paying for 5% to live for free.

"All welfare rates in Canada are well below the poverty line. A couple with 2 children in Toronto receives $14,316 per year. This is $21,115 below the estimated Low Income Cut-Off (LICO) for 2001."

See this is the complaining I'm talking about. Be happy you're getting something for free instead of complaining about the fact of not having a job yet you're still making money. Get a cramped, crap-ass apartment and go get a job. You'll be out of there in no time.

[cortexx]

nice to know im not the only self righteous douchebag here - or maybe - we-re saying what others really think !

what was the topic again ? this can of worms changed flavour very fast

[raijin-xiii]

Meh it's politics at least.

Edit: yeahhh you're already one because you're English lol

[doublejceballos]

Who Cares. Get U.S. Citizenship and vote in the American Election and the Rest will fall into place.

Is the Boarder still at the 49th Parallel?
I smudged that line out on my map a long time ago...

[quadracer111]

By the looks of it immigration only seems like an issue in Ontario... I know for a fact here in Saskatchewan, Alberta, and Manitoba we don't have many immigrants other than the odd German/Ukrainian family and maybe some Filipinos. I'm pretty sure BC is like this too. When I go to Toronto I feel out numbered because 3/5 people you see can't speak english

[cortexx]

By the looks of it immigration only seems like an issue in Ontario... I know for a fact here in Saskatchewan, Alberta, and Manitoba we don't have many immigrants other than the odd German/Ukrainian family and maybe some Filipinos. I'm pretty sure BC is like this too. When I go to Toronto I feel out numbered because 3/5 people you see can't speak english

Are you kidding me ? go down warden to steeles and check out the strip plazas , everything is written in asian , alot of buildings dont even have their signs in English. Talk about big trouble in little china ...

And the driving skills up there , oh my god , you take your life in your hands just driving down warden from the 407 , U turns on a 3 lane road with NO WAY to get to the other side except mount the central reservation , I have been backed into at the lights because an ethnic minority does not understand R does Not mean drive , it's effing retarded!

[jdms13rhd]

We'd have empty prison cells if we hanged all the murderers , rapists , drug pushers etc .

actually id have inmate do something good for the environment , like walk a treadmill 4 hours a day to generate electricity. Debt to society paid in a producctive manner.

With capital punishment being a threat you'd have alot less crime and alot fewer inmates !

Capital punishment is not a deterrent. It's been proven in the US -- they have the death penalty & have higher crime rates/murder rate despite it. This is actual researched statistics, not "pulling random facts out of nowhere" economics, too.

And as for "inmates doing something good for the enviro", well, they used to: Harper just shut down inmate garden programs that allowed inmates to contribute to society by learning how to garden & supplying fresh vegetables. This program was also backed by research, proving it's effectiveness in reducing recidivism after release, but nope, it's gone.

My g/f took degrees in Criminology & Addictions counselling so that's how I know so much about this -- and I have all the books with the bare stats within arms reach to back me up.

[PL_GTR]

These elections are don't really matter, it doesn't matter who you vote for in the states or here, it only matters who counts the votes lol.

[jdms13rhd]

I'm probably coming off as a self-righteous douchebag, but I'm really open to your opinions. Please, if you have a retort, I'd love to hear it.

Edit: saying "equality is a joke" is referring to the amount of anything people are looking for just because they exist. I'm absolutely all for equal opportunities, but my whole rant pretty much implies that I think.

Edit 2: Some numbers to attach to some of this argument:
"For the fiscal year ending March 31, 2011, about $6.6 Billion of the federal government's Canada Social Transfer to the provinces and territories will be for welfare and social programs."
"Canada's population is estimated 33,739,900
In March 1995, there were 3,070,900 people on welfare in Canada.
By 2005, that number had dropped to 1, 682, 500.
In March 2009, there were 1, 711, 500 people on welfare in Canada.
The percentage of the Canadian population on welfare in March 2005 was 5.2%.
By March 2009, that proportion had decreased to 5.1%."

Wow that's kind of disgusting to me that 95% of the population is paying for 5% to live for free.

"All welfare rates in Canada are well below the poverty line. A couple with 2 children in Toronto receives $14,316 per year. This is $21,115 below the estimated Low Income Cut-Off (LICO) for 2001."

See this is the complaining I'm talking about. Be happy you're getting something for free instead of complaining about the fact of not having a job yet you're still making money. Get a cramped, crap-ass apartment and go get a job. You'll be out of there in no time.

In 1945 the total govt tax burden/budget was split 60% business, 40% individuals. Now it's 95% individuals, 5% business. So if you want to get all technical, businesses are receiving far more "welfare" than Canada's neediest individuals are. And a $6.6B budget for social programs & welfare is extremely low for a 1st world country with such resources as ours.. especially when you look at the rest of Harper's budget: $30 B+ for engineless jets & $6 in 2011 alone for big business tax cuts. We're giving more money to our richest banks/corps than we are to our poorest.

Regardless of your opinion on the "needy", taxes are the bill for programs. We just need to decide what we fund with those taxes -- help for those who need it or breaks for big businesses, which has been proven not to "filter down" to benefit the economy as much as Harper would like to imply. The technicalities? For every $1 that big business gets, 20 cents of that comes back to the economy. The rest? Check out the reports of record profits for Canadian companies last year, & the combined $83Billion that has been stockpiled by our largest companies since the recession hit.

That's just for perspective.

Now, let's look at why so many people are on welfare? (although note, as per your statistics, the rate of welfare-receiving people is decreasing)
But there are many reasons for why so many people are on welfare in Canada, and not all of them are just people being entitled or lazy: the raising cost of living in Canada; the fact there is a severe lack in public childcare, forcing mothers to stay at home instead of work; closing mental-health facilities so those with legitimate illnesses can't receive the help they need to be productive in society; the disabled, etc. Ideally welfare should be an in-between -- something to help when needed & provide support to get back into the job world. But the govt keeps cutting funding further for programs that would help get people off of welfare, so it isn't fixing any of the problem.

And as for immigrants, we do not make it easy to transfer degrees & training from other countries here. So for example, a skilled surgeon from India coming here may find his credentials don't permit him to work a job in his field. Now he's forced to join the ranks of all the other people looking for entry-level jobs, which can be hard to find already in this economy. This happens more often than you'd think -- it is a growing issue.

None of these underlying causes are being addressed, which means people are forced to depend on welfare. In order to deal with these systematic issues, they need to be addressed at the root, instead of getting angered at the end result. It's a lot easier to stop a problem before it starts, than deal with the problem once it's so ingrained.

I do agree that welfare should be a last-resort, not "permanent" solution, but a lot of these people aren't on it by choice but by necessity. And anyone who thinks they deserve something just for existing has the wrong mindset too. Just like Harper assuming he "deserves" a majority.

[quadracer111]

Are you kidding me ? go down warden to steeles and check out the strip plazas , everything is written in asian , alot of buildings dont even have their signs in English. Talk about big trouble in little china ...

And the driving skills up there , oh my god , you take your life in your hands just driving down warden from the 407 , U turns on a 3 lane road with NO WAY to get to the other side except mount the central reservation , I have been backed into at the lights because an ethnic minority does not understand R does Not mean drive , it's effing retarded!

Huh? I have no idea where Warden and Steeles are, but I am guessing they are in Ontario? Re-read my post, I was talking about how immigrants only seem to be an issue in Ontario and not the rest of Canada.

Everyone always talks about all these immigrant issues we have, and I just don't see it here in Western Canada. I go to Ontario and it's like holy ****...