Power on pump gas???

[MeatSedation]

I'm in the market for a BNR32 and was just wondering what kind of power can be expected out of the RB26's strictly on pump gas? What kind of equipment did you guys need to get there? What were your experiences pushing your car to those limits?

I'm just kind of playing around with certain ways I can build an RB26 motor right now, as I understand there are a number of routes I can take.

My goals are 500 whp solid. Is it doable?

I apologize if this has already been covered, I tried searching, however nothing too relevant came up.
-Meat

[magular]

I know a guy in town that is pushing 475awhp on stock internals. Just kinda pushing it hard kuz it's cheap to fix if blows and it's 94 octane daily driven.... And if you want to build a rb26 completely you will be way ahead of the game. Theirs sooooo many on here who are pushing those kinds of numbers. Just depends how much money you have and how reliable you want it and what kinda driving will it be for.....

Good luck none the less!

[Skym]

500whp has been done on 98 octane pump gas many times over and done with stock R34GTR engine (N1 and stock) on dyno only. But not sure about pump gas in northern hemisphere, as it's rated differently (RON vs MON???).

For power, response and be reliable -

Tomei sump baffle plate
Tomei oilrestrictor
Tomei oilpump
Tomei Type B Poncams
Tomei (or modified factory) adjustable camgears
Tomei or Naprec bronze valve guides
HKS 2530 turbo's (or Garrett equivalent) with HKS adjustable internal wastegates.
Tomei exhaust manifolds
ECU with IAT, MAP sensors (Link G4 ECU, ViPEC ECU, etc)
Sard 800cc injectors (Roughly 1cc = 1hp)
Sard dual entry fuel rail
Sard FPR
Dual Bosch, SX, etc fuelpumps + surge tank, lift pump (to surge tank), teflon lined fuel hoses (to prevent fuel smell inside cabin, etc)+ fittings
Fuelpump hardwire kit
Tomei metal headgasket
Tomei intake, exhaust gaskets
Tomei forged pistons (cooling channels).
Crack tested, shot penned stock I beam conrods
ARP conrod bolts
Nismo bearings
Good stock or N1 block
Nismo twin plate clutch, Nismo slave cylinder
Mines exhaust from turbo's
Stock airbox with Apexi panel filter
HKS EVC 6 boost controller (recommended when running higher boost levels that single solenoids struggle with).

[gtrte37]

"76" gas station at the aldergrove border crossing supposedly has 100 octane and it still works out cheaper

[Dragon Humper]

Skym:

we use PON here (Mon+Ron/2) because the Ron # can be a little misleading. Our Ron in our 94 is 98 but our Mon is 90 whereas your Mon is actually 87 making your pon only a little less than 92. It's not too bad but no nearly as forgiving as our 94. I can run up to 1.1 bar of boost on 32 deg of ignition timing on our 94 before the knock sensors start to tingle.

That's about 650fwhp on pump, but with a really huge turbo that doesn't heat the air up at all. That alone is why I can pull that off.


Jon.

[Dragon Humper]

"76" gas station at the aldergrove border crossing supposedly has 100 octane and it still works out cheaper

I've been to that one a long time ago, if its the same one it has 100 pon octane (108 for you Skym) and really works well. Rumor is its VP 100 unleaded which would be about the equivalent to your Elf Turbomax in Aus.


Jon.

[Rush_in]

500whp has been done on 98 octane pump gas many times over and done with stock R34GTR engine (N1 and stock) on dyno only. But not sure about pump gas in nothern hemisphere, as it's rated differently (RON vs MON???).

For power, response and be reliable -

Tomei sump baffle plate
Tomei oilrestrictor
Tomei oilpump
Tomei Type B Poncams
Tomei (or modified factory) adjustable camgears
Tomei or Naprec bronze valve guides
HKS 2530 turbo's (or Garrett equivalent) with HKS adjustable internal wastegates.
Tomei exhaust manifolds
ECU with IAT, MAP sensors (Link G4 ECU, ViPEC ECU, etc)
Sard 800cc injectors (Roughly 1cc = 1hp)
Sard dual entry fuel rail
Sard FPR
Dual Bosch, SX, etc fuelpumps + surge tank, lift pump (to surge tank), teflon lined fuel hoses (to prevent fuel smell inside cabin, etc)+ fittings
Fuelpump hardwire kit
Tomei metal headgasket
Tomei intake, exhaust gaskets
Tomei forged pistons (cooling channels).
Crack tested, shot penned stock I beam conrods
ARP conrod bolts
Nismo bearings
Good stock or N1 block
Nismo twin plate clutch, Nismo slave cylinder
Mines exhaust from turbo's
Stock airbox with Apexi panel filter
HKS EVC 6 boost controller (recommended when running higher boost levels that single solenoids struggle with).

With kind of price list its gonna take me 4 years to build just the motor

[Voodoo_ChildR32]

Building a reliable 500HP motor ain't cheap, lol. Although, reliable and high horsepower don't go together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skym]

Thank you Dragon Humper.

Rushin, GTR = nicknamed money pit. Cheaper to buy a modified GTR and refresh engine, gearbox, diffheads, etc.

Or buy a Tomei Genesis crate engine (similar to what I mentioned above with Phase 1 specs) -

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-catalogue/000_complete-engine/en_engine_rb26dett.htm

I think I forgot Nissan repair gasket kit (has valve seals, cam seals, crank seal, camcover gaskets, etc). Also that's not including cooling mods like engine oilcooler, N1 waterpump, Tabata radiator (can fit stock shroud) with low temp thermostat, header tank and new welsh / water plugs, machining cost's, NGK sparkplugs, Tomei type A valve springs, ARP head studs, etc.

[MeatSedation]

500whp has been done on 98 octane pump gas many times over and done with stock R34GTR engine (N1 and stock) on dyno only. But not sure about pump gas in nothern hemisphere, as it's rated differently (RON vs MON???).

That's about 650fwhp on pump, but with a really huge turbo that doesn't heat the air up at all. That alone is why I can pull that off.


Jon.

Hm, big single, never considered that route. I didn't know it would would reduce charge air temps by that much... What if I ran twins with some less restrictive piping, big IC, catless exhaust etc. (from what I hear 95's and older can run without cats in MB) Might allow for bigger twins operating in a more effecient range..?

Or buy a Tomei Genesis crate engine (similar to what I mentioned above with Phase 1 specs) -

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003web-ca...e_rb26dett.htm

If time was an obstacle I would probably consider it, looks like a nice motor!

Just depends how much money you have and how reliable you want it and what kinda driving will it be for.....

Good luck none the less!

The whole reason I wanted to do a pump gas build was to be able to do another crows nest pass tour. Just this time in a car that can tear ass when I need it to. Long & short, I'm ready for expensive and reliable.

What about water/meth? A good way to bring charge air temps down I'm thinking...

[Skym]

From what I understand, twin turbo is about getting the hp you want without sacrificing transient response (Nissan mention this in catalogue), boost response, as are using smaller turbo's x2. GTR is designed for racetrack where better transient response, boost response is prefered (Mines R34GTR is one example). Also lighter engine internals, etc which helps with engine response (Mines R34GTR is one example).

If you have never felt transient response, it is the violent kick in the pants when on or off throttle. Boost response is how quick it reaches full boost (could be 3500rpm, 4000rpm, 5000rpm, etc). Stock GTR is around 3800rpm with stock turbo's and 4000rpm with N1 turbo's + Type B Poncams.

If want hp (drag engine), bigger single or twin turbo's tend to have worse transient, boost response, but get same hp. With drag engine a sequential gearbox (Holinger, etc) helps to change gear quickly thus keeps turbo on boost, so transient response, boost response is not critical.

HKS have a response vs hp chart, so can see what size turbo's you tend to lose response (transient response, boost response) with -

http://www.hks-power.co.jp/product/turbo/universal/index.html

Boost response can be solved via increasing capacity of engine (produces more exhaust gas to drive a bigger turbo, which is what they do with drag engines) or fitting HKS Vcam (VVT for RB26) which helps. That's why RB30 bottomend is popular.

I would use E85 (you would need E85 compatible oil from Motul, E85 compatible rubber, stainless fuel lines, E85 compatible injectors, E85 compatible fuelpumps). But E85 is expensive compared to pump gas if buy it in drums. With E85 there's around +50whp on a RB20DET at same boost level, more hp with RB26. ID brand of injectors (I think need around 1600cc) can support E85.

If money is no object and want to thrash without problems, I would drysump the engine. Around 700hp+ is where I've heard of more than one RB26 drag engine fail due to oil starvation problems.

If want best of both worlds (low rpm pickup, response with smaller turbo and hp with bigger turbo) you fit a compound turbocharger setup (small turbo + big turbo or small supercharger + big turbo) -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Me6yWApzY

Compound setup was used on Group B rally cars.

[curtisgoodman]

500hp on pump gas is doable... that list is pretty close in the beginning of the thread... i do it with a single feed fuel rail, nismo in tank pump, 670cc injectors, -5 twins and high boost but i also put 35K into my engine and supporting mods and thats not even including tranny, diffs, suspension or brakes... or paint job

good luck man a lot of people come on here asking the same questions and a lot never go any further... i wish you the best of luck and hope you can afford to join the 500+hp club

Curt

[MeatSedation]

E85, while an awesome substitution for high octane gas, sadly, is no longer available in Winnipeg. At least not on a consumer level. My only option would be to keep charge air temps down enough to run AKI 94 Octane.

The Idea of the hks stroker kit is definitely something I'll consider; the rb30 swap sounds nice, but I like the idea of being able to pick up an N1 block hot off the press if things go south with the old one.

That compound charging setup looks pretty sweet. Gets me thinking about twincharging.

good luck man a lot of people come on here asking the same questions and a lot never go any further... i wish you the best of luck and hope you can afford to join the 500+hp club

Curt

Thanks man, I've got a couple of budgets planned out depending on how much, I think someone said "insurance" I want in the end.

-Meat

[allwheeldrifter]

I made 582 at the wheels and 463 torque on 94 octane with a stock r34 bottom end

[Dragon Humper]

To add to what I said before, PON is "pump octane", RON in "research octane" and MON is "motor octane". The reason why research octane is so misleading is that the lab conditions that they use to come up with that # are quite mild and unrealistic (but a standard that is the same all over the world). Kind of like the mileage ratings on a vehicle from the manufacturer, only an act of god will get you the same result in the real world. Motor octane is also a "lab derived" number but with the worst case environment used (also a world standard).

That is why you can have 3 98 RON octane fuels and have 3 different PON #'s. Think of it as the base of the fuel giving you the RON and the additives given to it pumping up the MON.


500hp is a cakewalk on an RB26, all you need is some forged pistons, ARP bolts in the rods and the oil pump drive handled. You don't even need any headwork, the stock head and cams are fine. With some N1 turbos you've got an easy 500hp with a motor that can go 10 years without a problem. The key is the assembly, if the builder has his head up his ass it doesn't matter how much money you spend on "upgrades".



Jon.