My R32 GTR build

[mexi193]

From what I've gathered it appers that when the belt skipping the first time likely damage the bottom end.
when the head was rebuilt and re installs the bottom end had not been inspected for damage, the car then went right to the Dyno and the damaged bottom end started to get worked hard and got heat into it at witch point it looks as tho the crank ended up binding in the bottom end because the crank skipped single tooth on the crank gear.
You have to take into account the conditions in witch the first belt skipped being as there would be no oil pressure on start up and the fact it was well below -20 if you think about all the force on each rod as it comes into contact with the valves it is definitely hard on bearings even in optimal conditions let's alon a frozen motor on start up

[xcye]

Sorry for hearing all the mishaps! Normally, the cause for timing belt to skip is the one the followings:
1. Low Belt Tension (Caused by bad tensioner, Bad belt, bad idler etc.)
2. Slippery belt surface (Caused by Oil, Coolant, Maybe Snow)
3. Hard to turn (or seized) cams. (Oil starvation, misplaced or over-tighten cam journal caps, our of round cam journals, bent or seized valves, piston/valve interference etc).

Debris in the bottom end won't cause the belt to skip directly, unless the debris blocked the oil passage to the head which in turn made the cams hard to turn (or seize completely) . But, in that case, it should be easy to check by turning the cam by hand or visual inspect the cam journal surfaces for signs of oil starvation.

Anyway, I suggest you do not to rebuild the engine. Just buy a used or new OEM engine and enjoy that instead.
Builders at this part of the world do give me enough confidence.

[mexi193]

Jan30/2017
Hi james . found some time this weekend to finish my diagnosis on the rb. see below for the details which i sent to roy aswell.
i am into it for 6hrs so far and there is a fair amount of carnage , i was mostly done last weekend but needed to check the runout on the cams to see if there was an issue causing it to jump .
so the run out is minimal , about .001 ojn the intake cam and .003 on the exhaust cam. probably not enough to skip the belt , there is a couple things i have in mind to try to address the belt issue , but that is the least of the concerns with this engine. upon disassembly i noticed the valve indentations in the pistons and that the valve reliefs were smaller than the actual valves (the can be fly cut to address this), when i got the bottom end opened up I found lots of carnage , a couple spun rods , and several pounded brgs , debris everywhere , minor scoring on the crank , (polish???) going to need a full bottom end overhaul , might be able to reuse the rings but not recommended pistons can be reused if modified , disassembled the oil pump for inspection , surprisingly looks ok , still would recommend replacement, all oil galleries will need to be flushed and scrubbed. so line bore and rod resizing will also be required. I have not checked if the valve have any sealing issues , but quick visual seem ok......
but further inspection is required.

I had also contacted cam Jan30/17 5:15pm he called me for 15min After chatting with cam and giving him all the details listed above he has stated he'd like to chat with Trevor and get back to me.

Jan 31/17
Cam called at 12:17pm for 10min to give me a quick update cam and Trevor (the builder/inspector) spoke they disagree wether or not the valves and positions are comparable. They are going to meet up so cam can check out the motor to try to determine the root cause of the timing belt skip, cam believes the bottoms end was damaged on the first belt skip and wants to determine wether or not that skip was cause from the initial build of from Roy parking it out side without a hood.

Feb 17/17
I had the fallowing text conversation with Trevor
(Me) Hey how's it going man? Any new developments

(Trevor) Honestly I am waiting to hear back from you and or Roy on what the plan forward is. I have not found anything specific to cause the belt to skip but the bottom end seizing up may be part of it . And I have a few ideas to prevent it from reoccurring.

(Me) What I'm after is determined if the bottoms end was damaged to Roy skipping the timing belt or I'd something else is causing the timing belt issue.
And the piston relief issue is something I need to address two because that's the same built that came out of light speed so if the positions and valves are not compatible then that's an issue from the initial build that needs to be rectified

(Trevor)
The only issue I see is the bottom end is wiped.... so it would be tougher to turn which MIGHT cause the belt to skip the last time. But the first time MAY have caused the damage to the bearings ..... which came first ??? The old chicken and egg story. I was not involved with the first belt issue and cannot say fore sure what caused it..... I wish I could. All I can do is make sure that all possible issues are resolved upon reassembly. I will try to get in touch with Roy to figure out the best course of action.

(Me) Yeah this is a sticky situation but I'm don't wanna be stuck with a 12k bill to fix a motor in a car I never drove. We chocked the timing belt upto snow the first because we had no other explanation. And I know you wouldn't have let the motor leave if it wasn't spinning freely after assembly so that being said if you have found no major issues to a tribute the second belt skip to it stands to reason the bottoms end damage was likely caused by the first belt skip and when Roy didn't check the bottoms end after smashing my valves and slapped a rebuilt head back on it lead to this

(Trevor) I will have to touch base with Roy to make sure I have not missed out on any important information. But that does sound plausible. Let me get ahold of him and get back to you.

(Me) Sounds good my man

February 20 to February 22nd 2017 I had the fallowing conversation with AFR autoworks

(Me) I think we should set up a meeting you, me, cam and Trevor to get to the bottom of that motor.
I'll be calling tomei aswell for some info

(Info I mentioned was in regards to the valve reliefs vs valve base )

(Me) Would you be free for something like that ?

(AFR) I would have no problems sitting down with everyone however i can tell you right now, I am not going to be paying for anything. I am willing to help you out as always.

(Me) I can say I'm not surprised by your respond abit disappoint tho I knew this would be a blame passing game.
I know for a fact this damage was not don't by me and it's looks like it happened when the top end was mangled the first time after talking with Trevor. witch I ended up fronting the bill for I'm sure the work you have done for me as a friend would equal out to that top end but glad to know I'm on my own on the bottoms end 👌🏻
( work being referred to was work on my altezza )

(AFR) had Adam and I made some money off of your car it would be easier for us to do something. As your the head, you payed for the parts but i worked that off. I have no problems helping you out like i always have but I am not paying for this, especially when i doubt the first time was even my fault. It really sucks and i knew that this would be the situation when we found out the bottom end was damaged. I dont expect Cam to pay for anything.
this is a really bad situation and it sucks

(Me) Like I said I know you worked off the head I mentioned that.

February 22ed I called cam to get his take on the engine failure to fallow up with him.
Cams point of view is that the bottoms need was ultimately condemned when the first timing belt skip occurred. Unfortunately I'm inclined to share that point of view after considering all the facts laid out,that being the case can will not warranty the motor.
After chatting he said he is willing to offer a discounted rate on labor to rebuild my mangled bottoms end.



In short AFR and the motor have not offered any information to support the theory that the motors failure the first time was not due to AFR.

I'm left to buy all my parts again on my own with loghtspeed offering discounted labour to re assemble trashed motor

AFR offered discounts on parts and help with labour
Unfortunately they are not a direct supplier of tomei or king and do not build motors in house

Damaged parts
positions
Rods
Crankshaft ( possibly salvageable ???? )
Bearings rods and mains
Oil pump

Related costs
New head gasket
Timing belt
Front and rear main gaskets
machining
Piston rings
Blue printing and assembly
Fluids
New main studs
Payment to Trevor for disassemble and diagnosis 475cnd
Countless trips back and forth from cold lake to red deer

[mexi193]

Ok it's been a vary long time without an update,this next update is a vary long winded detailed events time line about my 2.8 stroker motor that never came to fruition.

Ok so this is the story of my nightmare engine built
All parts where brand new besides the cylinder head core, I brought to cam at light speed the fallowing parts.

Brand new N1 RB26 block
stock valve train fully assembled cylinder head ( ported and polished )
Full timing kit (with tomei timing belt from right drive)
Brand new Tomei 2.8l stoker kit ( from autodream, in store credit)
The rest was supplied by light speed,the build started around January 2013 he installed fully ferrea valve train with 1mm over valves,Tomei 270 10.25, tomei metal gasket set,rebalanced rotating assembly, cossworth bearings .
I picked up the long block from light speed September 30 2013
At witch time I installed manifolds, turbos and other things such as plant lines and such i then installed the motor into my R32GTR after witch time I brought the car to AFR autoworks February 22nd 2014 to have a custom intercooler and piping built as aswell as work along side a long time friend of mine Roy to do a talk wiring harness, being friends this car go put to the side and took a long time to get done the first fire up was not until February 27/2015 first fire up is logged on my Facebook and Instagram for verification ( r32skylineGTR )
The first dyno session was done some time after that after making around 400 whp we where having fuel delivery issue so the session was cut short and back to the shop to install a surge tank and dual bosh 044 pumps. Before this happen the car was just lingering around at AFR one night the car was put out side with no hood and it snowed and with no time timing cover when the car was started the timing belt skipped, after a quick compression and leak down test confirmed what the guys had known all the valves where bent, i received a phone call so I could be informed of this, the car was then pulled into the shop so I could remove the cylinder head, I went to red deer and removed the head assuming the timming belt skipping could be attributed to snow in the belt, I bit the built and replaced my ferrea 1mm over valves with the same valves along with new supertec valve guides,another grate deal of time passed and now with the head back on February 26 2016 the car was ready for the first fire up after the timing belt mishap (video on AFR Instagram for verification) at this point she has a fuel system upgrade and fresh 1mm Ferrea valves again and supertec valve guides
So onto the dyno again and now one pull to the next we lose 50hp the guys at afr stop the session do another leak down and compression test and all seems good so Roy decides to check the timing belt well what do you know the belt had skipped again this time there is no damage to the valves and clear cause for the belt to have skied. Roy and I decided it's best to pull the motor for a full inspection at this point I leave it with Roy at AFR to inspect but time is not there for him to inspect a motor, so I make a trip down too red deer to pull the motor for him to make it easiest to inspect, but with the motor out Roy still is unable to find time to inspect the motor ( it was going to be an off the books job as we are old friends) so I decide to out source to one of the builders that use to work at light speed at the time of original motor build and as this is an on going timing belt issue it leads me to believe the first timing belt mishap can not be attributed to the snow and that it has something to do with the original build of this motor, I received this email from the person inspecting the motor

[mexi193]

Hey guys I know I have been slacking on the updates so here it is. I guess I will start with the parts have recently ordered/received
DEF solid steering bushing for an s13 with a little modifying and stern love from a hammer its now in my car

I also made an order from drift works for the fallowing, solid subframe bushings, solid diff bushings and polyurethane steering rack bushings. I also picked up some parts from some members on GTRC such as a "with racing projects" oil catch can and a set of new tomei expreme manifolds and turbo elbows to mate up to a set of garrett 2860 -5 turbo’s I picked up from light speed.



After changing my steering rack bushing it was obvious that it was worth doing I guess after 22 years what can you expect your bushings to look like ?

I have also been working on my engine bay shave witch is almost complete the with help of one of my friends, while doing the shave I also decided not only to do an a/c delete but also remove the lines from the fire wall and weld a plate over the holes left behind in the fire wall, as well as we have removed the battery tray, fuse box, fuse box bracket and a full abs delete





Now I know some of you might ask why I didn't just tub my wheel arches as it would look nicer! Though the thought crossed my mind a lot I decided against it as there is already very little room in the engine bay. I just can’t give up what little space I have available especially with the intakes and intercooler piping setup I plan on building.
I have install my AMS front upper control arms I am still waiting to install the rear control arms as I didn't have a big enough wrench at the time of install.


I have also installed my oil cooler though I might relocate it as a lot of my friends have suggested because they don't like the placement

As it sits the next thing on my agenda is completing the welding in the bay and painting it though I’m unsure of what color to paint it I was thinking mint green, dark purple, or possibly black but I like the idea of something that pops what do you guys think?

[mexi193]

I have bought 2 "built" Autodream engines off kijiji, in the last year. For parts. Both times the autopsies revealed some, well, interesting things.

When I first installed my autodream engine it had a wired sound and they assured me it was fine so I just accepted it but now after the motor went and seeing simmiler issues in anoth build I believe it was bearing clearances issues. But nothing can be done about it now, I jut know not to buy a used motor if I'm looking for something that's going to put down some decent power

[camarogtr]

I have bought 2 "built" Autodream engines off kijiji, in the last year. For parts. Both times the autopsies revealed some, well, interesting things.

[Messiahlee]

This looks like a awesome build.

[EMAGDNIM]

Mmmmmm Tomei stroker kit... I can't wait to see what you have planned

[mexi193]

Went and looked and my receipt I ordered the 270's with 10.25 lift

[leeaspin]

Ohh thought it said T88...my mistake mines the T88....still should have done better than that though! Your build should put down some good numbers! What lift are your 270 cams?

[mexi193]

Yeah the car never really ran right from the day I installed it tho I was assured the engine was fine. It should have made a lot better numbers on the t78 especially because I was running a 50/50 water methanol injection. And so I decided, in order for me to be 100% satisfied and confident in this engine I needed to piece it together and be very specific with my parts, using the companies that are reputable.

[leeaspin]

Yummy! Weird you only made 430@23 psi with the t88...my last build made 427@11psi with the same turbo setup. Something seems fishy.

[bobbo]

I'm guessing by the parts list you're doing more than delivering for Panago
SOLID build.

[caliber676]

Look at all those shiny parts!