PING: Anyone currently getting ready for assembly.

[BenC]

Here's a broken Greddy pump. All pumps have broke though. Haven't heard much about the HKS except being crazy expensive:shock:

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/103878-greddy-oil-pump-dead.html

[maximk2]

Wouldn't oil weight/temp. be a major contributing factor to breaking a pump?

It is recommended to run 10w30, heat being the main reason...
When the 10w30 is not hot yet, wouldn't it stress the pump much more than if was fully warmed up? I mean.....to get all the oil nice and hot it is going to take much longer than to get the coolant gauge up to where it should be. Most people don't have an oil temp. gauge, see that the coolant is warm and start giving her.

[EtienneGignac]

I see your point and it probably does make a difference but I don't think it's significant. Plus oil is more viscous at higher temp so your pumped would actually be "less stressed" when oil is cold.

I personally think the oil pump issue is overrated in north america. A properly assembled engine shouldn't have any problem with a N1 pump. Again, just my opinion.

[maximk2]

I personally know a couple guys whose pumps failed. Finishing up a build in my gtr pretty soon, and really don't want to have a ruined summer because of this issue.

Blew my engine first day driving the car, due to detonation. I consider myself lucky, because the car had an n1 block, newer crank.

So I'm thinking that for it to have a proper crank and different block, the engine probably spun a bearing before. You would think that it would have a nice oil pump too, but the oil pump looks stock on the outside. The gears in it look beefier than n1 gears though. Can somebody please confirm that these insides are stock (or hopefully not?). I didnt find any pictures of what a stock pump looks like. thanks!

[EtienneGignac]

Looks stock to me. Have you measured them? I have a couple of stock pumps laying around in the garage. I'll take some pics tomorrow.

[EtienneGignac]

Sorry for the delay, here they are.

[GTRADDICT]

I see your point and it probably does make a difference but I don't think it's significant. Plus oil is more viscous at higher temp so your pumped would actually be "less stressed" when oil is cold.

I personally think the oil pump issue is overrated in north america. A properly assembled engine shouldn't have any problem with a N1 pump. Again, just my opinion.

More viscous at higher temps???

If I would have a piece of wood at a 40 degree angle: 2 drops of oil on either side. One is 5 C and the other one is 100 C. The 100 C oil will go down faster.

I may be wrong but I'm a chemistry student and 99.9999999% of the time, the hotter the matter, it tends to go to the other state. Which would be gas, thus being less viscous.

So the cooler the oil, the the more Oil pressure you have (Harder for the pump to move around)

[EtienneGignac]

True. I don't want to get into a big technical thing but basically the scales between cold and warm operating temperature for oil ratings are different. So basically a more viscous (warm) oil can slide down your board faster than a less viscous (cold) one.

Also, just fyi I believe oil has polymers in it. The polymer chains are all coiled up at cold temp and when warmed up they stretch and change the physical properties of the oil. But hey what do I know, I'm just an electrical engineer :P

[EtienneGignac]

Here it is:



So see a 5W30 oil would be less viscous when warm but a 5W50 could potentially stay the same or even be more viscous when warm (around 20 cSt).

But yeah noe that I look at the chart my previous guess wasn't that good. Most oils are less viscous when hot.

[jdms13rhd]

I think a good part of the problem with pump inner gears smashing is overlooked by 99% of people on the forums.

You should pay attention to the clearance issue between the crank oil drive and the pump itself. I cant remember but will write a write up on it very soon for you guys but the milling of the flats on the crank and even jun collars is way too excessive; measuring eight-tho on each side from memory "couild be wrong but not by much. either six or eight tho". Hummmmm, people always know to tell everyone with a rb to stay away from the limiter but nobody finds the cause of why that is. Excessive clearance between the oil pump and crank drive will rattle the pump at high rpm w/limiter. NO question" I believe thats a big part of the reason why these pumps are breaking in the first place.

You can always grab a jun collar and toss it in your n1 pump and sing jingle bells if you would like

I build my own collars with a much tighter clearance and I dont break my N1 pumps. I have smashed them with stock R23 and R33 cranks with the full drive. But like I said. Maybe in the next month I will make a write up on all this in detail as its almost building season Just keep that in mind before you assemble your engine and make sure you got the right sized collar for whatever pump/gears you use.

any of you guys know if you can use the rb30 pump gears and make a full inner drive? Looks kinda like 2JZ. That I could see helping as the material on all RB oem style of pumps cracks at the flat drive to the narrow part of the gear.

[jdms13rhd]

just measured.

.006 a side .012 total with a jun collar and N1 pump. Jingle bells, jingle bells :P

[M13]

http://www.nitto.com.au/products/oilpump-RB.html?vehicle=nissan

cool specs on OEM pump and NITTO pump

LOW RATES (LITRES / MIN)

ENGINE RPM FACTORY PUMP NITTO HIGH VOLUME PUMP
750 4.6 6.5
2200 15.3 20.2
7000 46.5 64.8

NITTO OIL PUMP GEAR VS FACTORY GEAR DIMENSIONS

DIMENSION FACTORY NITTO DIFFERENCE

Outer Gear Diameter 76.85MM 81.50MM 6% LARGER
Outer Gear Width 11.00MM 14.35MM 23% LARGER
Tooth To Outer Wall Width 2.55MM 4.85MM 47% LARGER

[GTRADDICT]

True. I don't want to get into a big technical thing but basically the scales between cold and warm operating temperature for oil ratings are different. So basically a more viscous (warm) oil can slide down your board faster than a less viscous (cold) one.

Also, just fyi I believe oil has polymers in it. The polymer chains are all coiled up at cold temp and when warmed up they stretch and change the physical properties of the oil. But hey what do I know, I'm just an electrical engineer :P

Mother of god!! I had to do only 1 electric physics class and I wanted to kill myself!!! You're #1 in my book lol