Timing belt failed/damage?

[tenkay]

Hey,

So this is turning into an exciting spring. When the car was being started, one of the idlers failed and so the timing belt jumped. The car didn't start. The idler, pulley and belt were all replaced, but the shop says there's no compression in the engine and it's not firing, suggesting that all the valves are damaged.

This all makes sense so far, correct? I know they haven't had the head apart to see how badly, and I've not looked at it. But if you guys had to guess, what's the damage and best course of action from here: get new valves? get an entire new head piece from a used engine maybe?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[nickisonfire]

Mines the idler just be destroy when i start at a stop ... But in my case only the exaust one need to be replace ... Bad to hear good luck

[amnash]

its not a compression check that you want to do.. its a leak down test.

hope you luck out like i did!

[Skym]

It's a interference engine, so valves could have hit top of pistons. Best way to tell is put a borescope down spark plug hole and inspect top of pistons for damage.

If valves have hit top of pistons, replace engine (keeps car on the road), rebuild the failed engine. Always good to have a spare engine.

[tenkay]

I'm somewhat hoping here that a new engine isn't the only option, that's just not very good timing wise right now. I'm going to pick it up later today, I'm still not quite sure why the mechanic believes there's no compression (based on it just not starting), I don't know if he did a leakdown or a compression test, that's on the to ask list.

Thanks for the advice so far. Probably be back once I know a bit more.

[GTR203]

I highly doubt there is any piston damage ESP if it was not running. Worse case senerio going to need the valves done , not nearly as costly as a new engine

[Skym]

Could be lucky. Maybe only lightly hit top of pistons and no major damage to valves or not slipped enough teeth for valves to hit top of pistons. Until you inspect top of pistons, just guessing.

[NismoS-tune]

If they did a compression test, the engine was being spun. No? How would you do a proper compression test without rotating the assembly?

Before assuming what happened and starting to think about cost and what to get. Troubleshoot and inspect. A borescope is what, $100? That will tell you right away if you have contact like skym says.

In regards to the mechanic, he should know how to diagnose your engine or you're paying the wrong people. If you don't trust or question his findings, you should show him up while you still know something he does not or get another opinion by a certified mechanic rather than a forum full of us (like me) backyard mechanics that guess without sight.

Questioning the mechanic when you're not (or are you?) Thats like someone telling me I wired something wrong when I'm the electrician and they don't know what the red and black wires mean in regards to each other. Lol

Get in there and visually inspect the tops. 30 mins an a $100 tool (or rental from a buddy via beer) will get you the answer you're after.

If they did rotate the engine to do a compression test and your valves bent, yeah you'd have horrible compression readings

[tenkay]

Thanks for the comments again. It's in my back yard now, all sad and broken. They didn't do a compression test, so I have no numbers. I'm not questioning the competency of the mechanic, he just believes that most of the valves are shot because of how the belt failed (he mentioned one of the cams was more than 180* off, I'm not a mechanic so that only theoretically makes sense to me).

I'll probably try to see if I can inspect the damage as mentioned above in the back yard. Probably try and talk to some of the sponsor garages here for another opinion and maybe some work

Ah well, just part of owning these, at least it didn't fail at revs or at speed; that'd have sucked significantly more.

[nickisonfire]

For me only the valve was bend no mark on the piston it finish cost me about 1500$ with everything but i remove the head directly in the car can be alot less if you have the time to shim the cam after

[amnash]

oh if your cam is out 180 then theyre gonna be bent for sure. i only skipped 4 teeth. time for you to download a FSM stop getting raped by shops.

[Skym]

The question is, why they didn't replace the tensioner bearing, idler bearing, tensioner mounting bolt, idler mounting bolt (known to snap due to age), waterpump, cam seals x2, crank seal x1 (also auxiliary belts if done over 20,000km, which is their designed lifespan). That is the 110,000km service with cambelt.

Unless cambelt was done on the cheap and they under or over tightened cambelt, maybe overtightened (to take into account cambelt stretching) to cause bearing to fail.

[tenkay]

Lazy or lack of care I assume. This car is new to me and hasn't seen road use yet. There is a sticker indicating when the belt change was done, but it pretty much looks like they did only the belt and nothing else at this point -- which has led to the current situation.

They being whoever did the service originally, I don't know if it's the previous owner in Canada or sometime before that. Guessing sometime before based on original conversations with how this car got here.

The question is, why they didn't replace...

[Skym]

I have done it on the cheap before and bearings were the problem, but sorted it before failure happened and I know a over tensioned cambelt (to allow for stretch) can cause old bearings to fail. One of those lessons you learn the hardway. What I mentioned above is what I learnt from experience (what had to be replaced).

Also rear crank seal can leak as well (common problem when engine ages).

If have to get a replacement engine (usually cheapest option vs rebuilding), do cambelt properly, rear crank seal, thermostat, etc while engine is out of car.

[MattiasJacobs]

Your best bet is to pull the motor and pop the head. Look at it yourself or have it bench tested by a head shop. Then pickup an oem gasket kit and put it all back together as good as new.