do you wanna know what a PPG dogbox is ??

[PopolZ]

No dog box has to be rebuilt every 5k km.
You should inspect them at least that often and replace any worn parts but thats not to say people don't drive them for more then 5k between inspections.

it's largly based on how you drive and what sort of driving you are doing.

that's more like it... thanks mcfly!

I can't remember on which website I was on (I've been trying to find it for the last hour) and it was recommended to rebuild the transmission every 5K I thought it was a bit excessive.

[Turismo]

i want, but for 10g i don't have the power.

[mcfly]

It might have been Aus that i quoted myself in, not entirely sure. Either way it's expensive:-P

Their products are still amazing to say thew least.

[TM]

What sort of application you looking at?

I honestly think its a waste for anything less than a dedicated track car.

Wrong.

[TM]

I sourced a PPG dog box for GTS-T and SR20 transmissions a few years ago... They're prices were extremely competitive and there are plenty of guys who run them no problem.

[bignate]

Wrong.

normally when u tell somebody they are wrong you should back up your opinion with an explanation on why you believe they are wrong. Dog boxes are far from practical for street cars but not as bad as some people believe. As for it being a waste, unless you drive a high power car balls out on the street then it is a waste.

[TM]

normally when u tell somebody they are wrong you should back up your opinion with an explanation on why you believe they are wrong. Dog boxes are far from practical for street cars but not as bad as some people believe. As for it being a waste, unless you drive a high power car balls out on the street then it is a waste.

Saying driving a car with a dogbox is a waste is the same as someone saying upgraded power is a waste, or those Sparco buckets are a waste, or those coilovers are a waste, the list goes on.

What makes it such a waste to run a dogbox? It's stronger, smoother, and tend to last longer.

If anything it makes more sense the aforementioned upgrades.

Dogboxes are fine for the street, it's just most people can't justify spending the money, either because they're cheap, don't have the money, or they don't fully understand why they should upgrade they're 20 year old gear boxes...

The point is, similar to stripping out your car or adding an exhaust, if you can put up with the noise, then there really isn't a downside to a dogbox...

[GTR--J]

Here's a better video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uc0B9qP0-k

[DeviantRebel442]

that whine sounds AMAZING...just sounds like pure sex...all the aggressive sounds of a car, turbo whine, tranny whine, screeching tires, blow off valves, cams, exhausts....those are what make a car so amazing...

Dogboxs are incredible trannies, and besides there usage, i would buy one just for that sound....

[mcfly]

Saying driving a car with a dogbox is a waste is the same as someone saying upgraded power is a waste, or those Sparco buckets are a waste, or those coilovers are a waste, the list goes on.

What makes it such a waste to run a dogbox? It's stronger, smoother, and tend to last longer.

If anything it makes more sense the aforementioned upgrades.

Dogboxes are fine for the street, it's just most people can't justify spending the money, either because they're cheap, don't have the money, or they don't fully understand why they should upgrade they're 20 year old gear boxes...

The point is, similar to stripping out your car or adding an exhaust, if you can put up with the noise, then there really isn't a downside to a dogbox...

Smoother? What world do you live in, in our world a dog box uses dogs to engage gears....

There are numerous downsides to dog boxes, they require a very specific driving style, driving casually doesn't really exist anymore. Sound is only an issue with straight cut gears, they still make helical dog boxes. Maintanance requirements are ten fold higher, and to finish off this breif list straight cut gears are not at all like stripping your car or an exhaust at all.

Dog boxes have major ups and downs, if you intend to primarily street drive a ppg dog box with straight cut gears you are making the wrong choice. There are other solutions much more suitable for a street car that some times sees the track.

[TM]

Smoother? What world do you live in, in our world a dog box uses dogs to engage gears....

There are numerous downsides to dog boxes, they require a very specific driving style, driving casually doesn't really exist anymore. Sound is only an issue with straight cut gears, they still make helical dog boxes. Maintanance requirements are ten fold higher, and to finish off this breif list straight cut gears are not at all like stripping your car or an exhaust at all.

Dog boxes have major ups and downs, if you intend to primarily street drive a ppg dog box with straight cut gears you are making the wrong choice. There are other solutions much more suitable for a street car that some times sees the track.

Dogboxes aren't that bad if your shifts are asservitive... they're no worse then your standard burned out syncroed gear box.

Sure you can get helical gear sets, but I'm pretty sure this thread pertains to mainly straight cuts.

Driving casually exists you just need to get used to it. And I wouldn't compare a formula ford gear box to a street box if thats what you're implying, because it's not the same.

First, explain to me the factory recommended maintainance for a stock gearbox. Then explain to me how the maintainence is 10 fold on a dog box. I can guess that it's really not 10 fold at all.

In fact, it's recommended maintainence is slightly higher, because they are assuming higher power and abuse, doesn't mean they require more maintainence in the same environment.

Then if you look at the simple fact of material quality, from stock to dogbox, it's almost a no brainer.

If you try to drive a dog box like a sychroed tranny, it isn't going to be nice, if you learn how to drive a dogbox trans and be assertive, it's a walk in the park.

And on the note of upgrades, it's like anything, sure you may not need a dogbox, but it's good piece of mind knowing that you can track, or do spirited driving and now have to worry about a 20 year old cast iron gear failing.

Your GTR wont be anygood with all those power upgrades and new suspension, if it doesn't move...

[mcfly]

stock box, fluid at 50k km(taking an educated guess), never open up for inspection.
ppg box, reccomended fluid and inspection(plus worn parts) every 5k km.
10x right there.

Assertive shifts = rough, I am not sure how you drive your manual box but personally i don't feel shifts and quite njoy driving on the street smoothly.

Material quality? PPG = oem box with aftermarket gears, sure the gears may be of stronger grade steel but the quality is likely higher on the oem box that recieved millions of dollars in research and development. In fact it's entirely possible that the oem gears use a better grade steel then ppg, maybe the same. OEM gears don't fail because of material, they fail because of design limitations.

[TM]

stock box, fluid at 50k km(taking an educated guess), never open up for inspection.
ppg box, reccomended fluid and inspection(plus worn parts) every 5k km.
10x right there.

Assertive shifts = rough, I am not sure how you drive your manual box but personally i don't feel shifts and quite njoy driving on the street smoothly.

Material quality? PPG = oem box with aftermarket gears, sure the gears may be of stronger grade steel but the quality is likely higher on the oem box that recieved millions of dollars in research and development. In fact it's entirely possible that the oem gears use a better grade steel then ppg, maybe the same. OEM gears don't fail because of material, they fail because of design limitations.

Assertive does not mean rough. It means shift the gear, don't make love to it. Shifting gears in a dogbox doesn't mean it needs to be like jackhammering pavement everytime you shift. If you get used to the box it's not that much different from your standard synchro drive. It isn't the same, I'm not saying the transmissions are the same and that they can be driven the same. I'm saying you need to learn how to drive one before you can drive it smoothly.

Yeah, inspection based on daily driving for the stock box, and inspection based on track and drag racing for the dogbox. Thats just my point, you're comparing a daily driver maintainence regime to a hardcore race regime. They're obviously different regimes.

Stronger grade? Thats putting it lightly, the material isn't just better in the PPG, the process to cut the gear is actually better too. Material properties are high above the stock box.

I dont know what your impression of the stock GTR box is, but companies save money on their cars by selling specs to the lowest bidder. Whoever can build a gear for the cheapest but maintain tolerances and properties, gets the bill. Mass manufacturing was never about overwhelming quality. It was about cranking out parts for as little money as possible.

I can almost garuntee you that the stock gearing is not of a high quality then the PPG gears. It's not in the cards. Not only are the stock gears not from billet but I believe that they're actually cast. So much for tolerances.

Stock gearing breaks from a combination of design restrictions, and material quality. You're definently right about the dsign restrictions.

What I'm saying is how can the maintainence of one be 10 times the other, given better materials and design? Doesn't make any sense.

This isn't an argument, it's a debate. Your opinion is well taken, but I'm not going to assume the stock box is better, because it's not.

[Z-Tuned]

Magnus Motorsports in Woodbridge has been puting PPG dog boxes in their drag Mitsubishis for years. They deal PPG as well.

And I don't think the guts are $10K at all more like $4000ish. Which I should have considered instead of rebuilding my transmission back in the day for like $3K :-(

But it was still a street car.

But RB26 trannies are so cheap...just buy more, thats like 10 transmissions! LOL

[bignate]

Magnus Motorsports in Woodbridge has been puting PPG dog boxes in their drag Mitsubishis for years. They deal PPG as well.

And I don't think the guts are $10K at all more like $4000ish. Which I should have considered instead of rebuilding my transmission back in the day for like $3K :-(

But it was still a street car.

But RB26 trannies are so cheap...just buy more, thats like 10 transmissions! LOL

Rb26 tranny's are cheap, but time and/or labour arent. Now $4000 for a PPG gearset sounds more like it! Im gonna have to do some digging. Theres always the OSG gearset too.