RB26 longevity

[Prenihility]

Alright. Now. Generally speaking, especially from a common sense standpoint, engines don't just wear out, and have an expiration date as if they're a jar of preserves...

Of course, more power means more stress on the engine. But, i think - with common sense in mind ,it's safe to assume an RB, or any engine that's serious for that matter, will last as long as you own the car.

I've conjured up this question because of my own paranoia. I've went to many sources, and heard folks saying things such as (key words, mind you) "you'll be surprised at how long it'll last!".. Which, in turn, gets my paranoid-ass mind thinking "oh... GOD! RBs are just 6-cylinder, glorified B16s with an extra 1000CCs of displacement.... " ...Or H22s... however you want to look at it. You get the idea, though, an engine that only produces serious power temporarily.



Is this just my paranoia getting the best of me, or... is it safe to assume that, even under extreme power-producing conditions, an RB will last, just as any real engine would...? Especially if the bottom-end has been built.



Am i just being paranoid... or... is there actually some truth to this. Not that... i'm saying these were CLAIMS to begin with. It's just somehing i'm automatically thinking... Based on things i've heard people talking.



I mean... it would be pretty effed up... to tune an engine to that degree. An engine like an RB, and have it break down after only a couple years, because the block has run its course.

[MattiasJacobs]

Take care of it. Maintain it. Tune it every year. Drive it till it smokes. Build a new one.

[gezed]

I think a lot of it has to do with the internet and how information is presented, people would only go online to complain about how their motor was built and blew up anyways and bla bla bla, this kinda establishes a bias that these motors have an expiration date. I'm sure most blown rb's are due to bad tunes or oiling failure and not really because of the actual durability of the "hardware"

But with that being said, I still think rb's are a bit on the fragile side compared to say the 1jz and 2jz

[Prenihility]

Take care of it. Maintain it. Tune it every year. Drive it till it smokes. Build a new one.

Damn... that sounds a bit... irresponsible/crazy, now, doesn't it?

Build a new one...? As if everyone and their grandmother has enough money to do another engine build. It's not like you're going through packs of chewing gum, y'know?

I'd hate to be your car, man (no offense...). But damn...

@gezed .... really? Other than the thinner cylinder block. It's tough, man... i remember a guy on Best Motoring coming on; an RB technician/expert. Said "600hp is nothing for an RB". The JZ (2JZ, 1JZ is irrelevant... as are the cars that they are fitted into... lol.)

Is honestly the only other engine other than the RB that's known in the world of Japanese sports cars, that's tough as nails.

Fragile... really? NNNNAAAAAAAHHHH.

Pre-'92 R32 RBs... yeah. Crankshaft journal bearing machined incorrectly. Pre-mature wear of the oil pump. It doesn't like to be revved, apparently.

The R34's RB, especially, is nasty.

[garetth]

It depends on what kind of driving you are doing, If your doing track and don't give it the supporting mods such as oil cooler, Tomei Oil Orfice, external oil drain, Oil pan baffle or extrended sump then surely it won't last as long. If you give some more information as to what hp your looking for and if its track or street then I'm sure you could get some better answers.

[Dragon Humper]

Bah...my motor is stock with some tiny little cams. I change the oil often with diesel spec oil and run good fuel in it all the time. I hammer the piss out of it, still runs like a top. My engine is a 1990. Most failures are based on human error, either in the build, tune or driving habbits. A healthy engine with a driver who knows when to back out of it if there is an issue will last a long time.




Jon.

[MarusGTR]

Just want to chime in that I hate ppl saying you should put a cooler on a stock RB26 that has an oem pump.

Way to kill the pressure head. You add parasitic losses for each additional oiling component. That's why N1s were made; same flow rate, higher pressure head. If you run stock keep it stock, it was designed that way.

[Skym]

Stock heat exchanger is more for heating up oil quicker in cold weather (snow, etc) and keep oil at certain oiltemp with stock engine. Same way autotrans heat exchanger in bottom of radiator helps to warmup autotrans oil in cold conditions (snow). In warm environments (racetrack) or when engine is modified / leaned out it can overheat oil, overheat coolant (you remove stock heat exchanger and run a air to oil oilcooler with engine and run to air to oil oilcooler with autotrans).

That is true with OEM oilpump. When selecting oilcooler core, have to match to pressure rating of oilpump. Once go past certain size with oilcooler core, have to fit a higher pressure oilpump or drysump pump is required for the bigger hp engines. I would think that's why Japanese made oilcooler kits have small oilcooler cores.

Wet sump race engines (import, V8, etc) can last 3000-3500km between rebuilds. If occasional track day and street driving, 100,000km is possible.

The thing is a engine can run fine but have worn bearings (surface). Monitoring oilpressure, matching to known factory or aftermarket figures is one way to know when bearings, etc are starting to wear (taking into account thickness of oil you are using that can close clearances).

[MarusGTR]

You mention the exchanger core's heating like it's a bad thing; I like to have my oil all warmed up and nice ready to go. Bobbo and I haven't had any issues on the track with our stock coolers (I do run a little cooler because of my stripped engine (no AC, no HICAS, no weather stripping)

Like I said, stock for stock.

PS: I wonder if a small core with 50 weight would still be too much for the stock pump?

[Skym]

What are are Bobbo and yours engine oil temps???

From what I have noticed, the pressure of cores are tested with a w50 oil.

Nismo show with stock engine and I assume with stock heat exchanger, 11-13 row oilcooler core that oil temps can be easily over 100 degrees C -

http://www.nismo.co.jp/en/products/competition/cooling/oil.html

But that's heat exchanger + oil cooler core cooling of oil combined (similar to adding a small oil cooler core inline with autotrans heat exchanger). Without heat exchanger you would run a bigger oil cooler core to get same cooling of oil.

Also they mention a resistance problem (I wonder if it's due to the high pressure inside oil cooler core causing the resistance??? problem), so use a -12? hose to solve that (interesting). High volume of oil in and out of core??

From what I understand, you want oiltemps around where oil produces perfect cst rating for clearances of engine at higher rpm. Also so oil gets to bearing surfaces, etc. But not too hot that oil breaks down (bearing failure, etc).

From what I have noticed on a racecar, oil temps don't excede 90 degrees C at end of main straight and coolant temps are around the same. But have no idea what oil they were running to suit and the clearances of engine (might not require a w50 oil for clearances of engine, hence oil temps can be lower).

[MarusGTR]

Mine is around 110°C when pushing on the track and it stays there solid throughout on 40 weight. As a comparison I touch 90°C on the highway with 40, around 85°C with 30. And you have to look at it this way; API standard of my track Motul Xcess is 150°C for 100 hours. GL-5 standard of my Mobil 1 5w-30 everyday oil is 155°C for 100h. The gauge on the car goes to 150°C, why would they make it go that far if 100°C you car blows up in a great bowl of fire?

I was talking with a guy at the track that has his SR20 510's oil went to 200°C once, we had a laugh about that.

Gotta keep in mind most people don't even track these.

Interesting read Skym with the Nismo products, you really know everything about everything lol. Absolutely love that R34 cooler duct.

PS: Also I'm a pansy and kept the car under 7000RPM... which I guess also applies to stock stays stock, I just take into consideration the boundaries of the engine.

PPS: Holy hell 34 laps around Tsukuba full pin on a test engine, yeah you need a cooler for that! I only do 10 max at a time with my pansy throttle/shifting management lol!

[Skym]

Thank you for the kind words, but I don't know everything about cars, still learning.

From what I understand, the clearance thing with oil is basic engineering. Clearances take into account oil thickness (thicker oil than needed makes it hard for engine to idle, response is sluggish, etc, been there and tried that and learnt from it). Was an interesting experiment. When I talked with person at Nissan dealership, they said the oil weight slightly changes as engine ages (they told me what oil weight works with stock engine at what km travelled, but forgot), which makes sense when clearances widen.

My understanding from what is mentioned in link below, is a w40 oil is good for around 120 degrees C max and cst rating (thickness) for the w30, w40, w50 etc oil at 100 degrees C (oil temp they test different weight oils at) is mentioned here -

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/tech-articles/10w-60-oil.pdf

Note at 130 degrees C the w50 is as thick as the w30 at 100 degrees C (mentioned on page 2).

Also note that 7.5w30 is stock oil weight (rough idea of the ideal cst rating for clearances when engine is new), but on factory sticker (drivers side of centre console on my car), it says to use 5w30 oil, etc.

[MattiasJacobs]

Damn... that sounds a bit... irresponsible/crazy, now, doesn't it?

Build a new one...? As if everyone and their grandmother has enough money to do another engine build. It's not like you're going through packs of chewing gum, y'know?

I'd hate to be your car, man (no offense...).

Haha wtf? Hate to be my car? I take good care of it and im sure youd love to have it. Ask anyone who actually shows up to the meets. In my perspective, if you spend the money to have a 500whp car and you drive it like a geo metro; well your a donkey. Not to say i drive like an idiot, but i do have fun with it. When i say "drive it till it smokes" it means your piston rings are finally fried, maybe 100,000km down the road and build a new one. You gotta pay to play with these things. Paranoia will only damper the amount of fun you can have. Trust me, ive been there.

[Dragon Humper]

^^^^^

Werd, it doesn't matter how well you build it, if you are going to push it eventually it will need to be freshened up. Could be as little as a re-ring after a full teardown.

If you aren't going to push it and have some fun......you should just stop fighting it and go buy a Prius.



Jon.

[cortexx]

To Answer the question of the OP, The life of the engine is dependant on quite a few variables but mainly on what is is built for.

A race engine that runs close to redline for alot of it's time tends to be built slightly loose ( greater oil clearances and ring gaps ) to reduce friction , heat build up and this is offset with higher pressure / volume oil supply to make sure the oil is able to maintain its film over bearing surfaces under load , and to make sure the rings don't bind .

A road engine can be built much tighter to improve engine lifespan but this type of build is not suited to racing .

Most people here will build as a compromise of the 2 styles above using parts they feel are needed to improve durability and piece of mind .

I don't think the RB engine is weak compared with any other engine. What may lead people to believe this are the mistakes people make building their own motors , the mistakes shops make through carelessness , a misunderstanding of the correct lubricants to use , a fundamental lack of knowledge when it comes to chosing upgrades and supporting mods.

If you look at the design of the RB it is an extremely simple design. 6 cylinders instead of 4 because it can give good displacement while maintaining a very short stroke which for racing makes it a very responsive with a broad broad power band (albeit at higher rpm than average). A short stroke engine puts substantially less stress on bearings , rods and pistons. creates less heat and can be contained in a shorter block which will weigh less in the car. Overhead cam design degates the need for balance shafts , pushrods and rocker arms all reducing the number of moving parts and allowing the engine to rev higher and pruduce morepower.

Have any idea how many moving parts a 24 valve head would have if it wasnt overhead cam ?.

All things considered the RB is a very well thought out design , it copes very well with bolt on upgrades in it's stock form and really shines when you utilize upgraded internals. The stock engine the car comes with has been known to run 200,000 klm easily , tuned and built engine also last a resonably long time ( the JUN lemon r33 gtr is a prime example , 5 years of racing never once breaking down or failing ) .

The guys are right though , you build it to enjoy it and drive it for fun. I drove mine today on dry roads with no salt and a heavy frost on the roadside . The turbos spool instantly in the cold dense winter air and it's a handfull all the glorious 55klm i drive to work . I don't drive it every day - once a week maybe twice but those moments are the highlight of my days .

I don't understand why so many people put theirs away so early - this is the best time of the year to drive any turbo car