RB26 longevity

[bobbo]

Mine is around 110°C when pushing on the track

When was that?!?

[MarusGTR]

Mine is around 110°C when pushing on the track

When was that?!?

Here, let me help you so that people get the joke.

[Prenihility]

To Answer the question of the OP, The life of the engine is dependant on quite a few variables but mainly on what is is built for.

A race engine that runs close to redline for alot of it's time tends to be built slightly loose ( greater oil clearances and ring gaps ) to reduce friction , heat build up and this is offset with higher pressure / volume oil supply to make sure the oil is able to maintain its film over bearing surfaces under load , and to make sure the rings don't bind .

A road engine can be built much tighter to improve engine lifespan but this type of build is not suited to racing .

Most people here will build as a compromise of the 2 styles above using parts they feel are needed to improve durability and piece of mind .

I don't think the RB engine is weak compared with any other engine. What may lead people to believe this are the mistakes people make building their own motors , the mistakes shops make through carelessness , a misunderstanding of the correct lubricants to use , a fundamental lack of knowledge when it comes to chosing upgrades and supporting mods.

If you look at the design of the RB it is an extremely simple design. 6 cylinders instead of 4 because it can give good displacement while maintaining a very short stroke which for racing makes it a very responsive with a broad broad power band (albeit at higher rpm than average). A short stroke engine puts substantially less stress on bearings , rods and pistons. creates less heat and can be contained in a shorter block which will weigh less in the car. Overhead cam design degates the need for balance shafts , pushrods and rocker arms all reducing the number of moving parts and allowing the engine to rev higher and pruduce morepower.

Have any idea how many moving parts a 24 valve head would have if it wasnt overhead cam ?.

All things considered the RB is a very well thought out design , it copes very well with bolt on upgrades in it's stock form and really shines when you utilize upgraded internals. The stock engine the car comes with has been known to run 200,000 klm easily , tuned and built engine also last a resonably long time ( the JUN lemon r33 gtr is a prime example , 5 years of racing never once breaking down or failing ) .

The guys are right though , you build it to enjoy it and drive it for fun. I drove mine today on dry roads with no salt and a heavy frost on the roadside . The turbos spool instantly in the cold dense winter air and it's a handfull all the glorious 55klm i drive to work . I don't drive it every day - once a week maybe twice but those moments are the highlight of my days .

I don't understand why so many people put theirs away so early - this is the best time of the year to drive any turbo car

Great answer. You deliver once again, Cortexx.

But yeah, the thing is... i think too much. Someone says "it'll last quite some time, 150,000KMs". In my mind; i think "why bother mentioning that". Practically, that means forever... unless of course you bought the car brand new, and drove it as a daily to this DAY! Then... ok, yeah. You'd have to take into consideration how long your engine will last.

Yeah... my... paranoia has been brushed aside. Or in this case... punched in the face. Really ****ing hard. And i'll be sure to do the same to another arseclown who makes another dumb claim like that...

"Only produces power temporarily..." MAAAAAAAAAAAN! ...SHUT UP!

Yeah. Because an RB26 is a B16, or H22 running 600hp... I'm sure they wouldn't fit something so weak under the hood of a supercar.

It's a GT-R. Not an EK Civic .


But yeah, once again, thanks Cortexx. And thanks for the replies, everyone.

@Mattius

If you say so

[Skym]

Marus92,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCadcBR95oU

Also oil starvation can damage a RB engine and dry sump is the only proper way to solve it.

[gtrjerry73]

Lol nice post skym
I think this whole post had been gone over a lot already. I think the consensus is that it's a skyline. If your worried about how fragile it is then it may not be the car for you. Sports cars are made to be driven hard. Maintain it and it will last as long as your driving habits/maintenance practices allow it to.

A built motor can take higher horsepower levels but isn't necessarily going to last as long as the factory setup. I have a fully built motor now and I have always pushed the car a little. That is why I bought a gtr. At the same time I expect in 2 or 3 years it will at least need new rings,clutch, possibly other things too like an alternator, some busted hoses, I may even break the gearbox, diff,transfer case, who knows.

The point is that nothing lasts. And don't be paranoid about it breaking.. Expect that eventually it will. Cause I promise you it will eventually. Just have money put aside for your car and if you are broke as we all are at times then don't drive it at its limit a lot if it is your only car.

[NismoS-tune]

I went all out on my build. Lasted 1200kms!!!

You just don't know how long it'll last. Kinda like a new Subaru boxer engine hahaha

[gtrjerry73]

Ouch!! Ill be pissed if that's all i get out of er..

[Skym]

3000-3500km is considered to be reliable for a race engine. If oilstarvation happens when cornering, launching, engine, turbo's wouldn't last long. People who have built high hp drag engines have learnt that lesson the hardway (wet sump has it's limit's) until fit drysump setup which solves the problem.

[gtrjerry73]

Ya my car will be seeing more street time then track time I'm sure. If I decide to start tracking it a lot then I will be looking into a dry sump setup.

[Bigalow]

Good thread. Good read.

I'm planning on tracking my GTR (HPDEs) and I plan on spending lots of dollars on all the "small stuff" to make the engine reliable and long lasting.

I will not build the engine as I'm planning on driving to the track to race. My GTR will be a weekend car and garaged most of the time. However, I do want to open it up to add support

I read talk about oil starvation. How can that affect me on HPDEs? What can I do about it?

Good read regarding the oil cooler. I was about to buy a Nismo cooler. I thought the Nismo product, in particular, promoted that it benefits both stock and racing vehicles. Should I upgrade the pump and cooler at the same time?

I'm considering taking the engine out, tearing it apart, and ceramic coating the short block (steam cleaning as well) along with the rods/pistons. I understand thats usually done on big builds but I'm going to engine longevity. What are y'all thoughts?

I'm not trying to win races. My biggest concern is having the engine last. I plan on a conservative racing tune and racing it for 10+ years or until I get tired of it. Which ever comes first.

I'll more than likely be racing in a 4 season climate (aka its not always summer time - California). I own a '89 GTR with a '97 RB.

Sent from my SC-03D

[bobbo]

I do schools, lapping days, time attacks and auto xs all year long with a stock oil system and no oil cooler. I simply add 1l of oil and keep an eye on oil temps.
My car now has almost 155,000kms and absolutly no problems.
See my thread on http://forums.gtrcanada.com/general-...gtr-faith.html I really feel the oil issues with the RBs is exaggerated.
I just hope I don't end up eating my words!!!

[Skym]

More hp = more heat and combine that with thrashing (pro racecar driver pushes car harder and can lap 4 sec faster than no pro driver).

To give you a rough idea of the size vs engine, oil pump.

Nismo oilcooler = stock engine, stock oilpump.

As far as I know, top of the range Lamborghini's run a Setrab oil cooler core (looks like a 50 row) and dry sump setup with 640hp?? V10? engine. Gibson Group-A R32GTR ran 2x smaller oil cooler cores (one in left and one in right fender / bumper area) due to space constraints (I think was 19 or 25 row x2 for 640hp RB26 engine) with Group-A oil pump (similar to aftermarket Tomei, etc oil pumps). N1 GTR racecar (around 460hp which is near the limit of the 34 row oil cooler) runs a 34 row oil cooler core with N1 oil pump + Reimax gears. That's without the stock heat exchanger.

If want longevity, 460-500hp and setup oil cooler, radiator to keep temps in check. That way can run turbo's at around 1bar with orifice oil restrictors, N1 oilpump, stock or Tomei Type B Poncams, R33 or R34 N1 turbo's or similar, forged engine, etc. If want close to 100% reliability (if engine is built correctly), fit dry sump setup.

[Bigalow]

More hp = more heat and combine that with thrashing (pro racecar driver pushes car harder and can lap 4 sec faster than no pro driver).

To give you a rough idea of the size vs engine, oil pump.

Nismo oilcooler = stock engine, stock oilpump.

As far as I know, top of the range Lamborghini's run a Setrab oil cooler core (looks like a 50 row) and dry sump setup with 640hp?? V10? engine. Gibson Group-A R32GTR ran 2x smaller oil cooler cores (one in left and one in right fender / bumper area) due to space constraints (I think was 19 or 25 row x2 for 640hp RB26 engine) with Group-A oil pump (similar to aftermarket Tomei, etc oil pumps). N1 GTR racecar (around 460hp which is near the limit of the 34 row oil cooler) runs a 34 row oil cooler core with N1 oil pump + Reimax gears. That's without the stock heat exchanger.

If want longevity, 460-500hp and setup oil cooler, radiator to keep temps in check. That way can run turbo's at around 1bar with orifice oil restrictors, N1 oilpump, stock or Tomei Type B Poncams, R33 or R34 N1 turbo's or similar, forged engine, etc. If want close to 100% reliability (if engine is built correctly), fit dry sump setup.

Thanks for the info. I think you misread my previous post. I'm NOT interested in building the engine.

I am interested in racing the stock engine on the weekend(s) every month.

I doubt I'll get another radiator. That's one of those things thats 'buy it when I need it.' An oil cooler, thermostat, swirlpot, are on my playlist for better cooling.

Whats the issue with oil starvation? Should I install a Tomei baffle?

Sounds like I don't need to ceramic coat the block but I'm still interested in it if it keeps my engine healthy for many years.

[Skym]

Ooops, my bad.

It's just most say that, then something goes wrong on engine and go all out on modifying them (catch the modifying bug).

If want to keep stock engine, at least fit a metal headgasket, ARP head studs and keep engine hp under 100hp above stock hp level, keep boost levels down under 1bar (to reduce blowby).

Also would replace stock turbo's with N1 turbo's that don't have ceramic exhaust wheels. The ceramic exhaust wheels when they fail can shatter and ceramic dust, etc can renter engine if backing off throttle and cause alot of damage.

Then derestrict engine via fitting full exhaust from back of turbo's, play with camtiming to suit, ECU tune, electronic boost controller (to drop boost level), engine oilcooler (Nismo or similar size). Or could remove stock heat exchanger and run a bigger oilcooler core, but not sure if stock oil pump is good enough (high enough pressure) to run a bigger oil cooler core (N1 oil pump is higher pressure oil pump). Could shim the stock oil pump pressure relief valve so stock oil pump is higher pressure (don't think it's a good idea to do that, as something could go wrong).

Nismo or Tomei Baffle plate requires removing engine to remove sump. Another way to help prevent oil starvation problems without removing engine is with a Accusump tank. Also shifting into higher gear to keep engine revs lower in corners helps and drop down gear when exiting corners. More rpm = more oil moved to head by oilpump and too much oil in head + high G corner causes oil starvation / lack of oil around pickup in sump (that's why they fit Tomei oil gallery restrictors, as smaller diameter than factory restrictors and is done with aftermarket oil pumps that move more oil to head).

Also like said above, can fill sump with more oil. My cars sump is routinely (each oil change) filled to H mark on dipstick to help prevent oil starvation problems.

If rebuilding engine I would upgraded to ACL bearings and Calico coat the bearings (similar to what Nismo do with their bearings).

Also coating top of pistons can help with heat. The factory engine has oil squirters that squirt oil onto underside of pistons, so keeping oil temps under control (lower) can help to keep piston temps down with the factory cast pistons that can expand quicker than forged pistons when hot and with tight factory clearances foul cylinder walls.

[bobbo]

I should've added that my car is tuned to 355WHP on on Shell 91 at ~1 bar ambient temp was 31c.