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  • TTBB BIG Brand Clutch/es Review

    TTBB BIG Brand Clutch/es Review

    In the beginning I want to say that I was madly and deeply in love with OSGiken clutches, I loved everything about them, engineering, construction, longevity and of course price! But since very recently ive order a rebuild kit for my triple plate and was stabbed in the back by my loving one! In this thread I would like to share some of my findings and ideas supported with pictures. All the measurement’s been taken by brand new Starrett caliper and are in millimeters.

    Here is how my ultimate OSGiken clutch comparison test “OLD vs NEW” is looks like! Please try to concentrate on the clutches layout because some pictures ended up being from the side!



    #1 TS2CD (18 bolt cover all the rest are 9 bolts)
    #2 TS3B
    #3 TS2BD (Worn Out)
    #4 TS3B Rebuild kit B (Brand new)
    #5 TS2CD Rebuild kit (Most time is irrelevant)



    NOW, every clutch starts with Pressure Plate (OSGiken world - Clutch Cover), so here it is!
    TS2BD has engraving letter B-D which I think indicates the thickness of the pressure plate depending on the application where TS2CD, TS3B and NEW REBUILD KIT TS3B clutch covers have engraving of BDP440


    Pictured OLD TS3B and NEW REBUILD KIT TS3B

    Well, here is my disappointment with OSGiken #1
    OLD TS2CD and TS3B are 3.85mm where the NEW REBUILD KIT TS3B is only 3.60mm, I know it seems very small of a difference but isn’t it always about the little things? Measurements were taken in multiple places at the very outer diameter on holes and between them around the clutch cover! Basically OS reduced the thickness of new clutch cover here!
    Just a note here: My current TS2BD that I modify and is still in my car was modified from being a 9 bolt cover to a 18 bolt cover because pressure plate was “LIFTING” from the center plate when bolted by 9 bolts, I know it is not a regular person task of modifying OSGiken clutch but I did it and it worked great!





    Now, pressure plate, note, WORKING WIDTH is not precise as the surface that work with clutch disc is rounded off to a complete width so this measurement can vary and only here for reference! The thickness of pressure plate is also different (if you ever seen the OS clutch then you can understand of what I mean) depending on application. YES you can fit TS3B pressure plate into TS2BD but it WILL NOT work! Since when you tight down the bolts clutches won’t be tightened against the intermediate and the system just won’t work!

    #1 TS2CD - W33.32; T17.50
    #2 TS3B - W36.32; T12.99
    #3 TS2BD - W36.36; T17.49
    #4 TS3B Rebuild kit B - W36.35; T13.05
    #5 TS2CD Rebuild kit - W33.32; T17.50

    NEW vs OLD - No complaints here, everything looks like it really should!)






    Next is going intermediate plates.

    ALL OSGiken intermediate plate was roughly 4.43 – 4.45 where the ones from NEW TS3B Rebuild kit B were SOLID 4.50, this makes me say here that thickness of the new plates should be 4.50 so you can figure out how worn is yours based on this! Once again, NO complaints for NEW vs OLD!






    Next is the most disappointing part – clutch disc! WW – my way of calling “Working Width” of clutch disc.
    #1 TS2CD – WW 32.5
    #2 TS3B – WW 35.00
    #3 TS2BD - WW 35.00
    #4 TS3B Rebuild kit B – WW 25.00 WTF??????







    Yes, some people can say that maybe OS played with ceramic ingredients of new rebuild kit, but I highly doubt this. Their clutches was bulletproof so I think they decided to reduce at least the life of them this way!

    As we can see width of the clutch disc is combined with intermediate plate width:
    #5 TS2CD – Disc 32.3; Plate 33.32



    #1 TS2CD – Dics 32.5; Plate 33.32



    #2 TS3B – Dics 35.0; Plate 36.32



    #3 TS2BD – Dics 35.3; Plate 36.33



    #4 TS3B – Dics 25.0; Plate 36.35! This lower width will mean that there be more pressure (per square inch) from pressure plate spring to a total surface area and this will definitely cause step effect on the plate, im not sure if it is a bad thing or not yet, but I DO NOT like this!



    Project at this point!)









    Another interesting point here, I never owned a brand new OSGiken clutch but I’ve noticed that all pressure plates were CONCAVED to the center, which in my opinion is making at least first disc wear uneven! My camera is pretty old so I am sorry for some unclear pictures.


    TS2CD



    TS3B



    TS2BD (You can see that WW is not the complete Width of the plates as stated earlier)



    But #4 TS3B Rebuild kit B showed me that brand new PPlates came very straight and this means that it is a physics fault where smaller diameter metal wears out faster than the outer diameter!




    As a very last point I want to say this once and for all, brand new clutch thickness of OSGiken discs is 4.06mm!!! Even though that this measurement is from this particular TS3B Rebuild kit B, I am pretty sure it is the same for all OSGiken clutches!





    Summary.
    The point of this thread is to educate people and show them internals of different OS clutches especially that at one point of time I had all this clutches available to me! I did contact OSGiken and the reseller who sold me this clutch rebuild kit and, NO, there is NO mistake/s in my order, all parts ARE for TS3B.
    You should look at the difference of NEW vs OLD design because this reduction in width is happening in all line up of OSGiken clutches including my favourite "R" series with independent center hub!
    As im still very upset with downgrading quality and redesign of OS, I am going away from them until they do another update of their clutches, and I REALLY - REALLY hope it is going to be to the proper way! Furthermore in my research of my next clutch ive noticed that some other Japanese clutch manufacturer for example ORC using very very similar if not exactly same discs as OS, if this discs using by others and are really identical why do they cost SO f... much?(

    My next clutch that I’m going to throw onto my GTR will be Nismo SUPER COPPERMIX TWIN Competition which should coupe with my current power pretty good. I am also looking at ATS Triple carbon but can’t really find recent reviews of it, all of them are 3-5 years old and older, way back when Carbonetics was still around! I will update this thread as I will move on to the new clutch brand! And maybe if there is enough interest do a thread of how I modify my current TS2BD.

    Just like before, do not post few words just to get automatically subscribed to this thread, there is a “Thread Tool” just above the first post where you can easily do that! I mean you can post your opinion, like and point of view about this and i really hope one day OS rep will see this!

    PS: I Need a better pictures hosting website, my photobucket is reducing their size and seems that i cant post full size pics anymore!(
    Last edited by tryingtobebest; 10-22-2014, 09:21 PM.
    TTBB is a true ACN member

  • #2
    Update #1 (Little one)

    Was looking at this rebuild kit and noticed that, this new design has circles on the hub corresponding, of which disc goes where! Middle is very different but 1st and 3rd you can easily mix places! Circles on the hubs are in away order from the flywheel, facing towards pressure plate (YOU)



    Also, holes for the transmission shaft are tapered on each disc hub! Never knew that and never payed attention myself until today! It is made that way that trans input shaft could get in easier! Top one is tapered and the bottom one is backwards (On REDESIGNED rebuild kit)






    Amazingly the old school design got it too!)))





    ^This indicates quality and truly thought thoroughly (not sure if this makes sense) design of clutches!


    Also, looking and thinking about all the OSGiken clutches i want to say that: im 99.9% sure that all common Nissan clutches have exactly the same and interchangeable parts! The main difference between Nissan engines is only a flywheel! The rest is the same! What i mean by that is CA, SR, KA, RB, VG, VQ, have the same input shaft splines, so all the parts (BUT flywheel) in TS2B from SR will completely interchange with TS2B from RB or VG! This is NOT TRUE for older style input shaft transmissions!




    NISMO SUPER COPPERMIX TWIN PLATE

    (Competition Model)









    Clutch came with, installation manual, sticker, shorter flywheel bolts and new Nissan "CHEAPER" style release bearing. I was really upset not finding alignment tool in the box! That metal ring, is pretty cool, it is used for assembling and disassembling of this particular clutch. It is used for easiness of installation, you know how you go in sequence slowly tightening pressure plate to the flywheel/basket/hub, so this ring allows you to finger tight all the pressure bolts almost to the end, without stressing out or disturbing the pressure plate cover.



    If you bought the clutch second hand, you can easily shorten the bolts with cutting disc of the grinder







    Clutch was marked for me, but I also marked it myself to keep everything balanced. Here you can see that top plate use twin metal plates and the bottom used triple metal plate design to transfer power.




    Center Hub with tough looking springs!





    Intermedia (Center Plate) is solid and machined empty inside. It is also slides a bit on disengagements due to those centering springs, this is to allow discs spin more freely and avoid extra discs wear!







    The whole thing, flywheel finish is unbelievably nice looking, I cant believe I didn't take macro picture of it!





    I don't understand why this clutch discs cost so much if you buy them separately (for rebuild), they are still VALEO product, so what if it has NISMO written on it!





    Now, the thickness is roughly 7.9mm and the working width of the discs is around 34.5mm








    If you go to Nismo official clutch installation manual for twin plate it would say a bit different torque specs for M8 CAP BOLTS



    Mine was



    So, I was not sure who to trust so, I trusted the higher number)


    Also, it took me some time to find some older clutch sleeve lenghts, so im just going to include one here. I know there is a newer page somewhere around, ill update this sometime.




    I received my Nismo some time ago, but didn't have a chance to fully break it in before this winter. On the first glance, even tho that I ordered Competition model, the pedal fees is extremely light! I mean stock clutch on my Altima SER feels much harder than this one! Here im considering disconnecting vacuum booster line and see if i like driving with booster "OFF" for pedal to have more feel/feedback! Also, im not sure if this is still a break inn time but I never heard any abnormal noises from clutch when disengaged. it does have a little noise of hub shuffling around but no as much noise as my previous TS2BD! Maybe once itll be broken in and I put few hard launches this will change but for now it acts like a dream!

    Just to have an Idea I stop by my local Nissan Dealer parts department where I order some small bolts and pieces for my Skyline once in a while, and I know they have Skyline on special CD and guy there is very familiar with them himself, so I gave him NISMO number and said I know its going to be a special order maybe even with the cash up front deal for this item, but he was UNABLE to help me. Also, ive searched in Google "Nismo Clutch USA" and it showed me that it was NismoShop (West Covina), I do have an account with them, so, ive emailed customer support, where they asked me to write to the Nissan Motorsports for price and availability on that item, I did that, and the person on the other side said that he received my inquire and that he will forward my request to Nissan Motorsports directly, ive emailed him today once again but im not expecting them to be able to get something like this now! The reason im doing this is shipping and duties for this clutch was pretty high so am asking everybody if you know store that can bring NISMO clutches to USA/CAN please let me know and ill review them in this thread!
    Last edited by tryingtobebest; 01-15-2015, 11:35 PM.
    TTBB is a true ACN member

    Comment


    • #3
      This post is taken for future references, updates, pictures and maybe a questions that i might be asked in this thread #2!
      TTBB is a true ACN member

      Comment


      • #4
        Interesting... Have you tried contacting OSG for their "official" response to the issue? Kind of curious to hear their reasoning to something like this.

        Comment


        • #5
          I see why you wanted that TS3B from me now

          That aside, was a fun read -- mostly I'm just posting to suggest using http://www.imgur.com for your image hosting, it's simple and generally works well.

          Comment


          • #6
            bump for thread name change

            "Life's too short to drive boring cars!"

            Comment


            • #7
              i would like to add some info on here about the TS3b clutch
              just had mine fail on the dyno. We believe that i had a slight amount of preload on the clutch, from me improperly adjusting the clutch pedal. It must have "spun" during the high hp pull and go so hot that it cracked.

              Now if you look at the new design of the rebuild kit, it looks far stronger.

              Built R32 GTR, BW S362, 682awhp @ 28psi

              Comment


              • #8
                Have a pic of the new disk? Looks like it split right where therivet lines up , I just installed a exeddy twin plate... I don't really like it, it's very hard to drive , I keep stalling it, I'm looking for a Nismo copper mix , heard they are much easier... Is this normal for a twin plate? To be so touchy? I've never driven a twin plate or any aftermarket clutch .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cuami View Post
                  Interesting... Have you tried contacting OSG for their "official" response to the issue? Kind of curious to hear their reasoning to something like this.
                  I don't think they, or anybody else would call it an "ISSUE", they just reduce surface area and probably modified chemical compound of clutch material to increase "toughness", that what I think they would say, BUT I was pissed about it and wish that they would play with compound leaving original WORKING WIDTH


                  Originally posted by tenkay View Post
                  I see why you wanted that TS3B from me now

                  That aside, was a fun read -- mostly I'm just posting to suggest using http://www.imgur.com for your image hosting, it's simple and generally works well.
                  Yes, If I would of got that TS3B from that guy before you, i might of not know about this issue and this thread wold never take place!)
                  Ill look in to IMGUR.com, thanks



                  Originally posted by JZ View Post
                  bump for thread name change
                  Thank you JZ, I have few others to change, ill contact you in some time!)


                  Originally posted by nick-nismo View Post
                  i would like to add some info on here about the TS3b clutch
                  just had mine fail on the dyno. We believe that i had a slight amount of preload on the clutch, from me improperly adjusting the clutch pedal. It must have "spun" during the high hp pull and go so hot that it cracked.

                  Now if you look at the new design of the rebuild kit, it looks far stronger.
                  Almost sounds like you had the wrong length (TOO LONG) sleeve in there, also, maybe some debree (Oil, dirt, grease) got in there during assembly!? AND, most important, how much power are you making maybe, dont think this is the case because i think this OS Clutches are WAAAY UNDERRATED!

                  Hey Nick-Nismo, can you make a picture of that split disc from the other side that we can see how it was stretched a part!?

                  GOOD POINT HERE. I Agree, newer design physically stronger, the hub on each disc is bigger diameter which means the metal that attaches to it grabs it in bigger diameter and it is harder to over stress or damage that thin plate that holds actual clutch surface (WORKING WIDTH)



                  Originally posted by steveo1502 View Post
                  Have a pic of the new disk? Looks like it split right where therivet lines up , I just installed a exeddy twin plate... I don't really like it, it's very hard to drive , I keep stalling it, I'm looking for a Nismo copper mix , heard they are much easier... Is this normal for a twin plate? To be so touchy? I've never driven a twin plate or any aftermarket clutch .

                  Steve, are you sure you got you Clutch vac boosted connected properly with check valve and in working (Holding low pressure) condition?
                  But knowing you, everything probably in working order! Ive had few diff aftermarket clutches in my life so i think you should let me road test your GTR next time when I see you!)))) LOL
                  Last edited by tryingtobebest; 11-17-2014, 12:59 AM.
                  TTBB is a true ACN member

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm not really sure, I didn't mess with any of that stuff, seemed to work fine before, it's not too stiff , just grabs really quick, I did some launches with it though... It grabs..

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I didn't mind the OSgiken twin clutch, was strong for sure however I ended up changing to the nismo twin kappamix which was way easier to drive, not chattery like the os. Sold it was the car though.... Since upgraded to the twin Carbonetic clutch which has been really nice: lighter than the nismo, rated higher than either but has the goofy chatter. Not cheap to rebuild though... I believe the reason the carbonetic is rated so much higher than the osgiken or nismo twin is because they have a stiffer pressure plate. Potentially why I crank walked too... lol
                      No build thread.
                      1991 nissan
                      El terror

                      "Built not bought" sooner or later = "broken not running"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        also this clutch is soo easy to drive its insane. feels like a stock clutch no joke.

                        i was definatly using the correct release bearing sleeve as i followed this chart and then ordered it through nissan


                        here's a picture of the other side


                        Last edited by nick-nismo; 11-17-2014, 09:25 PM.
                        Built R32 GTR, BW S362, 682awhp @ 28psi

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          you canbuy nismo coppermix competition from rightdrive very easily, they go for 2100$ish right now.
                          Need detailing done to your car? I'm open to travel to detail your car :

                          http://forums.gtrcanada.com/group-buys/54899-ontario-cobraa-detailing-group-buy.html

                          Please follow my works and latest news/promotion at : https://www.facebook.com/Waxxonspa || Waxxon.com ||

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bruizer View Post
                            I didn't mind the OSgiken twin clutch, was strong for sure however I ended up changing to the nismo twin kappamix which was way easier to drive, not chattery like the os. Sold it was the car though.... Since upgraded to the twin Carbonetic clutch which has been really nice: lighter than the nismo, rated higher than either but has the goofy chatter. Not cheap to rebuild though... I believe the reason the carbonetic is rated so much higher than the osgiken or nismo twin is because they have a stiffer pressure plate. Potentially why I crank walked too... lol
                            Hey Bruizer, Im not sure if you aware that Carbonetics went out of business last year! Did you get clutch from Carbonetics or ATS, which is still in business and doing pretty good!?
                            Your clutch is a twin plate, Is it Carbon or Ceramic? Since you said its very easy to drive im assuming it is Carbon!) Can you say few words about worming up clutch? Did you ever notice, not on the start up, when everything up to the temperature any slippage under high load?
                            Also, I think ATS clutches are very very thought through clutches, they play a lot with leverage options/ratios, which is easy and smart way to modify clamping force of the pressure plate! That is why this clutch will be my next choice if this Nismo fail me in any way!
                            TTBB is a true ACN member

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                            • #15
                              Doble post sorry!

                              Nick-Nismo, the ONLY way I can think of, as you mention yourself, is preload on the clutch pedal adjuster rod, that can make clutch not ENGAGE fully, make it slip and overheat like this! Anything else in clutch system wouldn't let you DISENGAGE clutch fully (grind gears)!

                              Also, if you are saying that it is super easy to drive with it, which clutch slave cylinder are you running? It should say right on it!
                              Stock 3/4 or
                              Nismo 15/16
                              Last edited by tryingtobebest; 11-18-2014, 11:16 PM.
                              TTBB is a true ACN member

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