Oil pump: Spline gear Vs. Reimax Vs. high-pressure oil pump ?

[cobrAA]

I dunno... I understand that no one can seem to find these mysterious high power skylines, but there are so many platforms that run spline drive without these issues, it seems like the only logical choice.

One would only assume that Spool RB and Supertec would have run these gears on some of their skylines before putting on the market, I seriously doubt some R&D guy drew it on a piece of loose leaf with a pencil, cut it out of billet and put it up for sale cuz it looks like it might work lol.

Ill be going spline when its time to order. Spool RB is cheaper, and seems to make some damn good RB26 products... They are my choice so far. Just finished stripping my RB26 tonight, so it will be after xmas before i get ordering things at the point. But i will update for sure as I go.

search for it on skylineaustralia, something about the spline gear not having enough ''play'' and could put too much stress on the crankshaft and break. Just like the collar upgrade, its great to have tighter clearance, but 0.01 clearance is not better either. and i think that was the case with the spline.

[RSTuning]

Re: oil Pump

There is alot of info on the net about the RB26 oiling system unfortunately alot of it is untested and speculated.

In regards to the oil pumps if your going to go with a standard drive pump than Tomei is your only option.

as mentioned before it is a 3 piece drive, they have done this for 2 main reasons, one contact area is greater and secondly any sort of vibration can be somewhat dampened.

any other pump using the 2 piece design is in no way better aside from metal composition which only delays the problem but doesn't solve it.

your best option is to use a single stage external pump, with a htd belt drive. this pretty much solves all problems associated with the oe drive setup but obviously costs triple.

regardless of the pumps with any high volume pump you will have to increase your sump capacity by another 2 litres.

[r32_nate]

All i can ever find it threads referring to this one, but not the actual thread. Id love to read this. There is another fella thats testing tight clearance issues with the regular flat drive collars, and showing that the clearances right now are way to big, causing most of the issue. One would assume that a spline drive would in fact REQUIRE tight clearances no?

Im 100% talking out ym ass tho, this si my first full RB26 build (done a few others), and this oil drive issue is ********. The only thing I see is from an outside perspective, that the failure of the RB oiling system isnt clearances, and collars and ****, Its the ******** flat drive system. U can make them longer, bigger, shorter, fatter its doesnt matter, 2 sided flat drive is ******** and is not a good idea. Any modification of this is a bandaide (and maybe a good one too) but its still not fixing the issue, it making it less likely to be an issue. Spline dive seems like it has potential to actually fix the issue, without being "Dry Sump" expensive lol

Ps I really wanna read the origional thread about the spline drives if anyone can find it

[bobbo]

Way over thought IMHO. There aren't enough failures with non abusive type use (excessive use of rev limiter & constant revs over 7500). I would suggest going with the one that makes you feel happy inside and don't bash the living **** out of your car.
... and use thread locker on the pump back plate screws.

[cobrAA]

this: http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/4...il-pump-gears/

and this: http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/4.../#entry7147312

Hi guys. Yes we have been working on this for quite some time now with very different real world results to the simplistic nature one would think of a project like this. Difference here is that we are actually doing the field testing (which is not easy on proper big HP RB engines with 2-step etc) and not releasing our product into the market without this.

The fine spline drive has shown many issues on an RB engine in areas that would normally not be thought of and has also really accentuated the differences between RB and 2JZ crankshaft properties and design.

First of all a significant issue stems from the process of an engine block being tunnel bored to correct the alignment of the main journal tunnel which can lead to the crankshaft sitting several thou higher than its original position in the engine block (which believe it or not can also vary block to block from the factory). The oil pump stays in the same position when bolted to the block and leads to the upper section of the spline being driven harder and loads the gear set in an ununiformed manner. There is not an acceptable clearance for an involute spline that will properly allow for this and also combine it with the further issues below. Obviously this is detrimental to the durability of an oil pump.

Second to this is the harsher harmonics that are found in an RB crankshaft as compared to a 2JZ item stemming a lot from the smaller journal overlap and also on a factory RB crankshaft from the 8 counter weight design. This is also further pronounced on a stroker crankshaft and when combined with the much smaller and weaker snout of an RB crankshaft this can lead to further clearance issues and gear loading.

I can't comment on how all this would come into play with the cheap sintered steel factory 2JZ gears but I can say that all this did not end overly well with our expensive nitride and treated EN Series billet steel gears in both operation & wear patterns and housing galling conditions. This is all just some information for you guys in regards to where we are at with this upgrade that we have been working hard on for so long now and is no disrespect to the gentleman designing the new pump listed.

We have a new design that is currently undergoing testing that will ensure a much higher level of drive durability without worry from the above conditions but, as always with our products, won't be released until Nitto is confident that it replicates what will suit all potential variations of RB engine builds without fault. Our track record with the current design pump is still excellent but upgrades are always good! Hopeful release date will be within the first quarter of next year but this, as always, will be subject to testing results.

yes i did some homework. problem is I have very minimal mechanic knowledge so i barely understand all this technical talk, althought I get the idea.

2) Maybe I got lucky, maybe 15 000 kms isnt enought, maybe it's because i dont drive my gtr like i stole it, maybe its because i never track it ( although i know lots of people who tracked their gtr with n1 or oem pump), but my n1 didn't break with a collar and 550whp. So maybe, like bobbo said, I'm over thinking it and because the way I use my car and set my rev limiter to 7.8k, i would be totally fine with a reimax gear set at 400$ and been done.

To be honest, the oil pump is about the only thing left on my build, everything else is bought or it's set and will be bought in a few weeks. Maybe I should just spend the extra 6-700 on the tomei pump and never worry about it. Problem is ; I don't want to add extra capacity to my sump because i already scrap it from time to time, i can only imagine is the sump was even lower, im scare to beak it.

[Dragon Humper]

You dont need extra capacity...any oil that your engine doesnt need just gets bypassed to the pan. The only crappy thing about that is that you are wasting HP running a bigass pump to move oil you dont need. That and you are heating it up more by working it instead of leaving it in the pan where it can get cooled. Granted if you have a good oil cooler then it should not be a big deal...but why waste energy if you dont have to. Honestly, an N1 with gears and a collar will supply 95% of all the builds out there...thats all I got.



Jon.

[RSTuning]

You do need extra capacity.

just because your pressure may remain the same if adjusted with the tomei pump doesn't mean your volume stays constant.

and unless he has drilled his head oil returns and installed a 1.5mm or smaller oil restrictor to the head, he will find himself wondering why hes getting oil starvation on the track and pumping it out through the valve cover breathers.

[Dragon Humper]

You don't need it if you arent filling up the motor with oil. If you have the restrictor and a BB single turbo then your oil usage is LESS than what it was in factory form. Your talking about bandaiding a screwup in the build, not adding piece of mind to a well thought out oiling system. If you make sure the sump is full with the system fully charged and proper oil controls in place, you don't need the extra capacity...Tomie pump or not. Like I said, if the motor doesn't need a whole whack of volume, the pump will just by-pass it back to the sump.




Jon.

[r32_nate]

this: http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/4...il-pump-gears/

and this: http://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/4.../#entry7147312



yes i did some homework. problem is I have very minimal mechanic knowledge so i barely understand all this technical talk, althought I get the idea.

2) Maybe I got lucky, maybe 15 000 kms isnt enought, maybe it's because i dont drive my gtr like i stole it, maybe its because i never track it ( although i know lots of people who tracked their gtr with n1 or oem pump), but my n1 didn't break with a collar and 550whp. So maybe, like bobbo said, I'm over thinking it and because the way I use my car and set my rev limiter to 7.8k, i would be totally fine with a reimax gear set at 400$ and been done.

To be honest, the oil pump is about the only thing left on my build, everything else is bought or it's set and will be bought in a few weeks. Maybe I should just spend the extra 6-700 on the tomei pump and never worry about it. Problem is ; I don't want to add extra capacity to my sump because i already scrap it from time to time, i can only imagine is the sump was even lower, im scare to beak it.

hmmmmm okay so what i gathered from this is its not 100% perfect for a 1000hp+ rb26 build thats being thrashed on constantly. Good on Nitto for doing the research, but correct me if im wrong, but the issues they list for the spline drive are the same as what we are still seeing with upgraded billet gears and extended flat drive.... extensive wear patterns and broken gears when beaten on.

I guess when it comes right down to it, it really depends on what u wanna build for. I drag my car 3-5 times a year and street it on weekends, its a play thing, and honestly an N1 pump and reimax gears would be overkill for what I do, as most issues are caused by rev limiter and holding high rpm with track driven cars for extended periods of time. So this spline drive is likely gonna work just fine for my application, and honestly most other peoples on here. Its like buying a hummer H1 cuz u need a 4wd vehicle in the snow, over kill but ur some damn happy when it snows lol.

Also, they note the cause of the extensive wear/issues is caused by lie boring the crank tunnel, which im not doing. Factory main bolts and factory specs should fit tighter and less crank walk, eliminating this issue.

Ive been too lazy to get a hold of spool rb, ill email them now...

[Dragon Humper]

One big caveat of a spline drive is that the pump must be aligned on the crank so that it is perfectly centered. The provisions are already there for that on the LS pumps, not sure if that is the case on the RB pumps. Not that big a deal, you just need to make sure that the outer gear isn't rubbing the snot out of the case.



Jon.

[Bruizer]

This dead horse has been beated for 25 years. I'm sure someone has a running or reliable gtr out there over the years. OP, what you had worked for you. why change that?

[cobrAA]

This dead horse has been beated for 25 years. I'm sure someone has a running or reliable gtr out there over the years. OP, what you had worked for you. why change that?

i don't know... because i'm adding about 100-150whp to the car, maybe i should strenghen other stuff around too ?

[Black BNR32]

This dead horse has been beated for 25 years. I'm sure someone has a running or reliable gtr out there over the years. OP, what you had worked for you. why change that?

Internet fear mongering, the most powerful thing in the tuning world

[Bruizer]

I did what you want to do. I'm still trying to get it to run. There comes a time you've modified so much that nothing wants to work together until it's actually engineered and blue printed. Then you still don't get warranty. Like my other built engine. 15 engine lasted 1200km. Should have left it near stock rather than all sorts of unicorn poop and pixie dust.

It's st the retarded point now that if I don't change everything to as good as the next part otherwise I may have a failure that takes out expensive parts.

Like putting an expensive stroker kit with an N1 oil pump 8|

[cobrAA]

I did what you want to do. I'm still trying to get it to run. There comes a time you've modified so much that nothing wants to work together until it's actually engineered and blue printed. Then you still don't get warranty. Like my other built engine. 15 engine lasted 1200km. Should have left it near stock rather than all sorts of unicorn poop and pixie dust.

It's st the retarded point now that if I don't change everything to as good as the next part otherwise I may have a failure that takes out expensive parts.

Like putting an expensive stroker kit with an N1 oil pump 8|

i shouldn've never bought that gt-ss turbo kit... i didn't knew what was modding before this turbos lol!!