Project Dry Sump

[christdeyoung]

What are you making for crankcase vacuum? My moroso 4 stage doesn't make a whole lot of vacuum when I'm into the throttle even a little bit Maybe -2psi. Fuel off decel it makes about -5psi. (I utilized the factory boost gauge as my crankcase pressure gauge)
Only problem I've had with my setup is blowing oil out the vent. I'm running 2 breathers in series now as one wasn't fully capturing everything and it was making an incredible mess on my trunk. Thinking I'm going to change my dry sump tank to one a little better at integral separation as to not rely so much on the breather(s). The tank I have now is a canton racing rectangular tank, and it doesn't seem to enjoy handling the amount of blowby my motor creates.

[cobrAA]

whats the main advantage of this? safety because crankcollar + oil pump +8000rpm rev aint good on rb26?

[christdeyoung]

Increased ring sealing due to ring pressure differential, less windage loss due to an oil atmosphere in the crankcase, increase in oil capacity, less oil aeration, no crankshaft snout mod required, more stable/adjustable oil pressure, especially when pulling G's. Higher volume oil delivery at high RPM's, and the entire system of lines and tanks act as somewhat of an oil cooler.
RB26's can, with proper sump extensions and baffling, make it into the 7 second ET's without the use of dry sump. I went dry sump because I wanted to see that it can be done for much less than everyone said, and it can. I don't even think I have 2500 into my entire oiling system, and besides the blowing oil issue which is due to my particular dry sump tank, I have had absolutely no problems with it.

[xcye]

What are you making for crankcase vacuum? My moroso 4 stage doesn't make a whole lot of vacuum when I'm into the throttle even a little bit Maybe -2psi. Fuel off decel it makes about -5psi. (I utilized the factory boost gauge as my crankcase pressure gauge)
Only problem I've had with my setup is blowing oil out the vent. I'm running 2 breathers in series now as one wasn't fully capturing everything and it was making an incredible mess on my trunk. Thinking I'm going to change my dry sump tank to one a little better at integral separation as to not rely so much on the breather(s). The tank I have now is a canton racing rectangular tank, and it
doesn't seem to enjoy handling the amount of blowby my motor creates.

To create Vacuum, you need to seal your crank case by putting check valves before venting to atmosphere.

I am at -8psi at decel(Regulated By a Moroso vacuum regulater), -5psi at WOT. Vaccuum at WOT depends on the condition of your engine and the pump.

I use a peterson tank,a Moroso oil catch can which vents to the back of the car. No blow by issue at all, barely see any oil in the catch can after long drives. The baffle design in the peterson tank is very good. I just wonder how the inside of the carton racing one look like.

whats the main advantage of this? safety because crankcollar + oil pump +8000rpm rev aint good on rb26?

Increased ring sealing due to ring pressure differential, less windage loss due to an oil atmosphere in the crankcase, increase in oil capacity, less oil aeration, no crankshaft snout mod required, more stable/adjustable oil pressure, especially when pulling G's. Higher volume oil delivery at high RPM's, and the entire system of lines and tanks act as somewhat of an oil cooler.
RB26's can, with proper sump extensions and baffling, make it into the 7 second ET's without the use of dry sump. I went dry sump because I wanted to see that it can be done for much less than everyone said, and it can. I don't even think I have 2500 into my entire oiling system, and besides the blowing oil issue which is due to my particular dry sump tank, I have had absolutely no problems with it.

Pretty well said!

Anyway, dry sump is mainly used to prevent oil starvation after prolonged high G manuver, while, in our case (RB engines), it is also a lot more reliable than wet sump pumps if your engine sees high rpm very often.

[speedfreak]

I have a question maybe you can give some input on.
Idle oil pressure on RB26 is approx 21 psi
Yours is at 35
What are your pressures at 2000rpm and at what rpm is your max regulated pressure reached?
My concern is that excessive oil throw off rod ends due to increases pressure and possibly volume may cause too much oil on the cylinder walls and also may create increased oil temp due to the higher pressures at idle.
I'm sure you thought of these things but just wanted some of your input.
I'm considering running a single stage pump and trying to get the idle pressures down closer to 25+/- a couple psi.
The extra oil on the cylinders could cause issues like burning or ring float.
What do you think?

[xcye]

With 5W40 Lubromoly, at idle (950rpm to 1000rpm), 90Degree, my oil pressure is about 30psi. The max pressure comes somewhere around 5000rpm at about 110psi(If my memory serves me correctly). The 35psi was with my old gear set up, I dropped the gear ratio a little from my initial set up.

In general, when you choose a pump, the oil flow rate is more you need to concern about than the pressure, as the pressure is affected by too many other factors than the pump itself. When I was making my setup, I chose the pressure section according to the HKS RB pump's flow rate. And, I set the maximum pressure according to that of a N1 RB pump. I'd say it worked very well with my stock spec engine.

If you picked out a pump that had correct flow rate and set up the maximum pressure right, then you won't need to worry about the things that you have mentioned.

BTW, 25psi at 950rpm, with 5W30 oil at 80 degrees, is pretty much the exact stock value. I do not see any problem with it, but I'd prefer higher if you track your car.

I have a question maybe you can give some input on.
Idle oil pressure on RB26 is approx 21 psi
Yours is at 35
What are your pressures at 2000rpm and at what rpm is your max regulated pressure reached?
My concern is that excessive oil throw off rod ends due to increases pressure and possibly volume may cause too much oil on the cylinder walls and also may create increased oil temp due to the higher pressures at idle.
I'm sure you thought of these things but just wanted some of your input.
I'm considering running a single stage pump and trying to get the idle pressures down closer to 25+/- a couple psi.
The extra oil on the cylinders could cause issues like burning or ring float.
What do you think?

[TriniGT]

What model GM coils did you use, were they the D585 LS2s? Any pics of how they were mounted?

[xcye]

I have a couple of pictures here. Don't have access to my car right now, since it is in a shop getting resprayed.

What model GM coils did you use, were they the D585 LS2s? Any pics of how they were mounted?

[christdeyoung]

Nice job fitting the D585's. I was gonna put mine there, but I didn't have the ambition you did for adapting them to fit into the original coil brackets. Don't forget to jack the dwell on these pricks. Not sure if you have AEM. I just changed the dwell curve, and doubled the dwell factor. AEM calibrated dwell for RB26 coils was only 1.6 ms.

110 psi is a lot of pressure. My relief is only set to 65 psi. Going to turn it up just a touch more. Probably 75.

[xcye]

Thanks for the kind words and the advice!

Yes, I have AEM. I did double up the dwell. But, with AEM Series 1, I can only get to about 3.0ms at high rpm due to wasted spark setup.

110psi is the relief pressure of a N1 pump. So, I guess it should be OK. But, If someone with N1 pump does not mind to share, I'd like see how the oil pressure/RPM curve look like with a N1 pump.

[tryingtobebest]

Thanks for the kind words and the advice!

Yes, I have AEM. I did double up the dwell. But, with AEM Series 1, I can only get to about 3.0ms at high rpm due to wasted spark setup.

110psi is the relief pressure of a N1 pump. So, I guess it should be OK. But, If someone with N1 pump does not mind to share, I'd like see how the oil pressure/RPM curve look like with a N1 pump.

As far as I remember Charlie, your rev limit is around 7.5 - 8k rpm??? SO, at your high RPM and the DWELL is at around 3.0ms on your WASTE spark system, whats the duty cycle on the coils??

Im assuming if you DONT have waste spark you can ether max your dwell at 6.0ms or the max rpm for 3.0ms would be around 14 - 16K rpm!) WOW - LOL )))

[xcye]

Yes, I set my max rpm to 8k rpm.

If I remember correctly, the max duty cycle for those coils is about 40%. At 8k rpm, one complete rev takes 7.5ms; With waste spark, one spark per rev, the dwelling can only be set to 7.5ms x 40% = 3ms.

AEM Series 1 has only 4 coil drivers, so I can only use Wasted Spark Setup.

With direct drive spark configuration, yes, you can set the dwell up to 6.0ms. However, the coil reaches its peak around 5.0ms anyway and charging it further may cause damage. So, I'd set the maximum dwelling to 4ms or lower.

[caliber676]

I may be asking a few dumb questions so sit tight.

So from what I'm understanding this is the setup of your stage 4 setup;
1. oil is fed into the pump by two ports in your modified oil pan and one in the head.
2. One line from the scavenging side of the pump is routing oil to the external oil tank
3. The oil is sent from the external tank to the high pressure side of the pump and out to the greddy filter block where it is filtered and cooled and back to the filter block
4. The oil is sent from the greddy filter block to the engine block where the oem filter is mounted from factory.
5. Oil sent through the engine and back to the oil pan to start it over again

Is this the correct routing?

Next question is how did you delete the oil pump? Did you just remove the pickup tube or the gears as well?

And for the bracket, how do you tension the belt?

Sorry if your smacking your head! I would be very grateful for the insight and hopefully you have the means to reproduce the hardware, I would be very interested.

[xcye]

The routing you mentioned is correct. But, in my setup, all three oil pickups are located on the modified oil Pan. And to make is clear, the factory oil filter is mounted on the Greddy filter cooler block.

Yes, the internals(Gears, Oil pressure regulator) and the back plate of the factory oil pump is removed, as well as the factory oil pickup.

Yes, you can adjust the belt tension. To adjust it, you firstly loosen the two mounting bolts. Then you can swing the pump towards or away from the engine block. Then you tighten the bolts back up.

If you are interested in buying a copy of this setup, I happen to have one kit for sale. Please check out http://forums.gtrcanada.com/parts-sa...b-engines.html

I built this kit for a member here. But, he just vanished right after I got everything ready for shipping. I should have asked for a deposit. Hey

I may be asking a few dumb questions so sit tight.

So from what I'm understanding this is the setup of your stage 4 setup;
1. oil is fed into the pump by two ports in your modified oil pan and one in the head.
2. One line from the scavenging side of the pump is routing oil to the external oil tank
3. The oil is sent from the external tank to the high pressure side of the pump and out to the greddy filter block where it is filtered and cooled and back to the filter block
4. The oil is sent from the greddy filter block to the engine block where the oem filter is mounted from factory.
5. Oil sent through the engine and back to the oil pan to start it over again

Is this the correct routing?

Next question is how did you delete the oil pump? Did you just remove the pickup tube or the gears as well?

And for the bracket, how do you tension the belt?

Sorry if your smacking your head! I would be very grateful for the insight and hopefully you have the means to reproduce the hardware, I would be very interested.

[caliber676]

Awesome! I'll definitely be in touch with you soon!