RB26 oil system

[Bruizer]

Nismo oil pump has been a choice I've seen in many magazine 600HP+ cars. Personally, if I go through with my build, I'm using the tomei oversized oil pump and the tomei oversized oil pan which is strongly recommended to do. Anyone ever use the HKS oil pump?

[JD74]

For those who have PREMATURELY purchased either a STOCK or N1 Oil Pump prior to doing your homework, all is not lost. You will NOT have to give away, throw your pump in the garbage or by another complete pump.

Reimax (used to be known as Reinik, creators of the 2.8L RB-X GT2 as found in the NISMO 400R) has come up with the Solution.

They offer 2 Replacement Gear Sets for these Pumps;
1) 77mm - Replacement for N1 Oil Pump Gears.
2) 81mm - Replacement for STOCK Pump Gears.

An Australian Company, POWERTUNE, has also created N1 Replacement Gears due to common failure of N1 Pumps in Australia.
They claim that their first Gear Set was made in 2006 and has been running strong in a 400KW (536HP) GTR since then.

**See this thread for more info on ORDERING and availability etc... and Pump inner pic compares etc.

http://forums.gtrcanada.com/showthread.php?t=39626

I will be using one of the above in my upcoming build in an N1 Pump.

Allan

[Skym]

Factory produces peak power before revlimit is achieved. Basically it means gears in gearbox are changed at peak power, way before rev limiter is reached. Most of those 700hp cars have it tuned the same way as factory, so peak power is around 6000-7000rpm's and revlimiter is set higher, like 8000rpm+. Also there's more than one rev limiter on a stock GTR ECU and are set at different rpms.

A high reving engine would need a dry sump setup, which has an external oilpump.

To rev higher with wet sump setup, probably would mean fitting a external belt driven Morroso oilpump or similar + bigger 9 litre capacity sump, shaped like a upside down T with trapdoors inside and ditch aircon pump (so you have a place to fit external Morroso oilpump).

Can see trapdoors in this custom modified sump -

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/557-f.jpg

This is a link with the types of sump design's that are used on engines -

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/New_products.html

[rbs14]

Factory produces peak power before revlimit is achieved. Basically it means gears in gearbox are changed at peak power, way before rev limiter is reached. Most of those 700hp cars have it tuned the same way as factory, so peak power is around 6000-7000rpm's and revlimiter is set higher, like 8000rpm+. Also there's more than one rev limiter on a stock GTR ECU and are set at different rpms.

A high reving engine would need a dry sump setup, which has an external oilpump.

To rev higher with wet sump setup, probably would mean fitting a external belt driven Morroso oilpump or similar + bigger 9 litre capacity sump, shaped like a upside down T with trapdoors inside and ditch aircon pump (so you have a place to fit external Morroso oilpump).

Can see trapdoors in this custom modified sump -

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/557-f.jpg

This is a link with the types of sump design's that are used on engines -

http://www.crank-scrapers.com/New_products.html

a group buy from the guys on skylineaustralia.com ... the complet kit is around 2500 to 3000 aus$$$$ so around 1600 to 2000 can$$$

it's not bad compare to a 1500 tomei pump !!!!

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Rb-External-Oil-Pump-Kits-t252332.html

[KLJohnson]

...
To rev higher with wet sump setup, ...

To rev higher in a wetsump engine I would strongly suggest removing the torque converter access hump that protrudes into the pan and nestles in the girdle. It affects the windage flow pattern the length of the engine.

Make sure your engine sits level or tilted very slightly forward with respect to the pavement so that oil does not get trapped in the rear of the pan and churned full of air (made worse by the hump) making you think there is something wrong with your oil pump as the highly aerated oil gets drawn into the gears.


Just a thought.

[RB20DEThybridnut]

here's my story:

setup specs

RB20DET 450-500rwhp Drag car
ACT HD single disc 4 puck unsprung clutch
26X8.5X15 Mickey Thompson slicks
2720lbs chassis


My problem lies when I launch, bringing it to 7500rpm and dropping the clutch makes a quick but deadly shock between the drive and pump gear.

Stockish kind of oil system using the snout and front cover pump is deffinetly off my rebuild list, broke my second pump to pieces (N1 oil pump) in one launch, even after a collar install, with my stock oil drive snout and N1, the setup lasted longer, figures....Exactly like it was mentionned above, that the even with a collar, the drive and gear still has some play in it, still making it vulnerable to failure at high rpm shocks.

I was told from gurus down under that even a tomei pump would break to pieces with that kind of abuse, of course this is a drag car, not a circuit car. So the stress is at launch, the rest of the pass is cool.

So i'm aiming for a single stage external with additional oil drains for next time out, will keep you guys updated on how its taking abuse

BTW, very interesting thread indeed,

cheers,

Sylvain

[KLJohnson]

What's the endplay on your crank?

here's my story:

setup specs

RB20DET 450-500rwhp Drag car
ACT HD single disc 4 puck unsprung clutch
26X8.5X15 Mickey Thompson slicks
2720lbs chassis


My problem lies when I launch, bringing it to 7500rpm and dropping the clutch makes a quick but deadly shock between the drive and pump gear.

Stockish kind of oil system using the snout and front cover pump is deffinetly off my rebuild list, broke my second pump to pieces (N1 oil pump) in one launch, even after a collar install, with my stock oil drive snout and N1, the setup lasted longer, figures....Exactly like it was mentionned above, that the even with a collar, the drive and gear still has some play in it, still making it vulnerable to failure at high rpm shocks.

I was told from gurus down under that even a tomei pump would break to pieces with that kind of abuse, of course this is a drag car, not a circuit car. So the stress is at launch, the rest of the pass is cool.

So i'm aiming for a single stage external with additional oil drains for next time out, will keep you guys updated on how its taking abuse

BTW, very interesting thread indeed,

cheers,

Sylvain

[RB20DEThybridnut]

by end play do you mean how much my crank moves from front to back?

or do you want to know the play between the pump and crank snout?

[KLJohnson]

by end play do you mean how much my crank moves from front to back?

or do you want to know the play between the pump and crank snout?

Front to back movement.

The ACT info does say higher shock loads with your setup. I am trying to see what other variables might be involved. A couple others would be the oil you are running and its temperature when launching.

The snout mounted Gerotor pump is pretty common in drag vehicles, abused ones as well. Have you talked with ACT? You do not mention use of an aftermarket crank damper (??).

[RB20DEThybridnut]

ok, I don't have the crank in it now, but the end play should be minimal as I use new bearings every build, then again I can't be precise on how minimal it is. I will get my bearings soon for yet another build, I will keep you posted on the thrust (end) play.

As for oil, I was running Mobil 1 15w40, no temperature reading was taken

And i'm using the stock harmonic balancer

[KLJohnson]

ok, I don't have the crank in it now, but the end play should be minimal as I use new bearings every build, then again I can't be precise on how minimal it is. I will get my bearings soon for yet another build, I will keep you posted on the thrust (end) play.

As for oil, I was running Mobil 1 15w40, no temperature reading was taken

And i'm using the stock harmonic balancer

ATI has good info here: www (dot) atiracing.com/products/dampers/101/index (dot) htm

The stock harmonic balancer (18 years old from your sig ? I know the engine could be older or younger than that.) is probably not set up for dumping the clutch at 7500 rpms with an unsprung disc. I would call ATI even if you do go with an external pump.

As for oil -- look at some temperature and viscosity charts. I have an old one here that uses a semi-logarithmic scale in order to straighten out the relationship -- very important to ensure that your oil is at proper operating temp.

[rbs14]

here's my story:

setup specs

RB20DET 450-500rwhp Drag car
ACT HD single disc 4 puck unsprung clutch
26X8.5X15 Mickey Thompson slicks
2720lbs chassis


My problem lies when I launch, bringing it to 7500rpm and dropping the clutch makes a quick but deadly shock between the drive and pump gear.

Stockish kind of oil system using the snout and front cover pump is deffinetly off my rebuild list, broke my second pump to pieces (N1 oil pump) in one launch, even after a collar install, with my stock oil drive snout and N1, the setup lasted longer, figures....Exactly like it was mentionned above, that the even with a collar, the drive and gear still has some play in it, still making it vulnerable to failure at high rpm shocks.

I was told from gurus down under that even a tomei pump would break to pieces with that kind of abuse, of course this is a drag car, not a circuit car. So the stress is at launch, the rest of the pass is cool.

So i'm aiming for a single stage external with additional oil drains for next time out, will keep you guys updated on how its taking abuse

BTW, very interesting thread indeed,

cheers,

Sylvain

ROSS harmonic balancer

http://shop.rawbrokerage.com/product.sc?categoryId=7&productId=193

and external oil pump drive(rb25)

http://shop.rawbrokerage.com/product.sc?categoryId=117&productId=276

group buy

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Rb-External-Oil-Pump-Kits-t252332.html&st=20

[RB20DEThybridnut]

What's the endplay on your crank?

The crank is in with fresh bearings, I have just shy of 0.002'' (0.05mm) of end play

RB engine manual states that for thrust clearance (movement) standard value is from 0.05mm to 0.18mm . limit value is of 0.3mm

[KLJohnson]

The crank is in with fresh bearings, I have just shy of 0.002'' (0.05mm) of end play

RB engine manual states that for thrust clearance (movement) standard value is from 0.05mm to 0.18mm . limit value is of 0.3mm

I was concerned that there was enough axial play and friction between the crank and inner gear to give a twist and create unequal loading. When you drop the clutch the crank becomes a torsion bar of sorts.

It appears that a quality aftermarket damper would help you regardless of which direction you want to pursue with the pump.

[jdms13rhd]

I know another solution to your problem. N1 pump and jun collar has .006 each side .012 total clearance between the jun collar and N1 inner gear. Toss the jun collar in the garbage and take your pump that you want to use along with your crank to a machine shop and for about $200 they can make you a new collar with .002 total clearance. Pump will still slip right on and then you wont have anything smashing in there causing pumps to crack.

Thats what I do and since then have never busted a N1 pump. Before I did these collars I have busted 2 engines with full collars and OEM and N1 pump.

New crank pulley is a must for big launches.