The gasoline problem.

[cscriver]

i realize its kind of an old post but i need to clear a few things up, you guys got me all confused.
#1 a stock gts-t type-m can run 91-92 octane without any problems?
#2 in bc we have 94 octane with 10% ethanol at husky. This is bad for my car?
#3 what about fuel additives like off the shelf stuff at lordco and canadian tire. is that worth my time?

Thanks guys!

[kelaog]

Just experiment. If you hear knocking do like someone else said and reset your ECU so it retards your timing, get rid of that stuff and get a new tank of gas. Ethanol works as a knocking preventor. IF you read mymohawk.com they will tell you about it. A better way to increase surface tension in gasoline is to added nail polish remover (non alcoholic) 100% butanol or something. In a high octane gas you would not need much, less than an ounce. It will increase your octane and get rid of the pinging if experienced. I carry around a bottle of it at all times incase I run into such a problem. What will happen? Sometimes it increases fuel mileage depending on the fuel, sometimes it will reduce it if you happen to add too much. I'm still working on it, but one time I got 600kms to a tank using it mostly city driving

[Dragon Humper]

Octane Boosters and such.

Acetone (nail polish remover) reduces the surface tension of the fuel droplets and makes them easier to remain a mist and burn. I have played with it for about 2 years and have found that I do get a small increase in milage but not enough to justify ruining my paint with a spill (it's nasty stuff).

It's not so bad if you mix it in with your home-made Octane booster. The diluted Acetone won't ruin your paint, just yellow it if you have a spill and not clean it up right away (don't rub, you'll pull the bloody paint right off).

As far as Ethanol, it's awesome stuff. All the info you see claiming it will ruin your engine, make your tank leak, bla...bla....bla, is all crap! My guess is it was missinfo. being spread 10 years ago by the big oil comp. before the US and Can. gov. started to force the oil companies to put it in there gas. Any car (JDM included) built after 1987 will run it with no issues to lines, pump, guage, etc..

Ethanol does have less heat energy than gas but with propper tuning will only get 12 to 15% less milage than gas (not the 25% that the stioch ratio would suggest). The truth is this fuel is VERY det. resistant and you can get quite aggressive with timing curves to make the engine more efficient (Cam timing as well). I ran my GLH on Mohawk 94 (10% eth.) for the entire 2 years I had it. I also ran a home brew Octane booster of Tolulene, Kerosene and Acetone (1 litre per tank). This was enough to run 15lbs of unintercooled boost for the entire 2 years with no problems (2.2l with 8.5 to 1 comp.). E85? Can you say 30lbs of boost with no high dollar race fuel.


Jon.

[BurlyR32]

Ive been running 94 in my GTS-T and I get backfire pops, which my mechanic says is just air, not fuel. Should I try running 91?

[Speeddm]

In Edmonton there is a station that sells 94. It works really well in a friends NA, no nos 948hp Hemi Cuda.(Ill find out the exact station) But thats besides tha point. Just so you edmontonians know there is 94 available. I Run a jap tuned Blitz ECU I run 91 with 64oz of Torco Accelerator its NOT cheep but its worth it.

http://www.torco.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=163

Check out some of the data on the website. This really works well.

[Sky_kid]

Avgas.

Ok I said it.

I know the lead will foul plugs and cat. I'm curious if any one has tried it/ mixed it. Octane is 100-110 so there may be some advantages.

[GTR-Dad]

In Edmonton there is a station that sells 94. It works really well in a friends NA, no nos 948hp Hemi Cuda.(Ill find out the exact station) But thats besides tha point. Just so you edmontonians know there is 94 available.

http://www.myhusky.ca/locator/

This locator finds stations all over Canada.

I'm all for running higher octane, but that's only part of the story. Flame front speed influences ignition advance requirments and for the higher Ethanol content blends, lubricity should be examined.

I've actually got an e-mail in to Husky to find out what they know about flame speed and will post if I get an answer.

It would be nice to know if you need gas and you're not near one of the four in Edmonton (for example) that sell the 94 Octane Performance Plus blend, that you can fill up on 91 gasoline, add some octane booster, and be on your way...

I think the flame speed on Ethanol blended fuel is faster than on gasoline so you'd run less ignition advance for best torque on the ethanol blend. If you had to run gasoline at least your IGN advance would be on the safe side. Lubricity shouldn't be an issue with the 10% blends.

Dan

[mikey]

so it's actually a good idea to run octane booster if you can only get 91 octane?

which ones are the best bang for the buck?

[GTR-Dad]

so it's actually a good idea to run octane booster if you can only get 91 octane?

which ones are the best bang for the buck?

Higher octane helps the fuel resist the urge to ignite on its own without being part of the orderly combustion process that starts with the spark plug and procedes outward. Low octane will ignite at the hot spots as temperature and pressure of the air/fuel mixture increases.

You can combat the tendancy of lower octane fuels to detonate by running less boost, keeping intake air cool, keeping engine coolant temperature cool, adding octane booster, adding fuel and retarding ignition. (Did I miss any?)

Octane booster is only one tool. I personally prefer to tune (boost, fueling and ignition advance) for the fuel I can readily buy and carry a container of octane booster for the day I get a tank of 'bad' gas that has a lower octane rating than I've tuned for as evidenced by the presence of knock.

Not sure which octane boosters are good bang for the buck, but if you've got O2 sensors or a cat, you'll want to choose one that's compatible with those components.

Hope that answers more questions than it creates!

Cheers,
Dan

[Stinky_1]

just something for some of you guys to think about.

At our Skymeet I had a chance to grab some dumps of a few members "tuned" ecu's. There was a particular member that I was driving behind for some of the trip that was shooting flames out his tail pipe at every light. When I saw his tune I got VERY worried.

See his ecu had NO KNOCK MAPS at all!!! This is not uncomon to do this on a straight race car. Something that you know the condition is VERY good. The plugs are changed often, the coils are looked after and all the conditions are right for the car to run good.

On a daily driver though or a car that you are not tracking then maintaining as MUCH as you are tracking it, its a VERY bad idea! I realize some of you have no way to know for sure what is done to your ecu. But if you have a sticker on your ecu (even if the ecu looks stock) you should open it up and take a look if there is a socket in there with a chip in it. Chances are you are 99% safe, and that your knock maps are in there. But if you have access to a guy with a consult cable you should consider dumping the tune and checking what you really have.

From what I have seen so far most of the tunes from profesional companies are pretty mild. They dont really go too far into tuning, and most are well within safe levels. its just if the knock maps are gone that you will have issues.

Now, about the MINES ecu. I dont know why everyone is so scared of it. I have one in my white car, and it has been running fine on petro canada 91. Never a sign (that I can hear) of knock. I am SURE the knock maps are in place still. So it will end up with a hybrid tune between their "ideal" maps, and the knock maps anyway. So all these myths about them being engine killers are unfounded (in my mind).

Any turbo car should not be run on lower than 91. And if you have 94 availioble its a great idea to use it. But your engine will NOT blow up if your running 91 all the time either. there are TONS of calgary members running only 91 and all our engines are still running.

I know of a BC member that ended up with a tank of 87 in his gtr. He had trouble climbing hills on the highway at 180+ km.h, but the car still ran. I am not sure where the horror stories are coming from though. if you figure the price difference between 87 and 91 its only about 10 - 15 cents. on 55 liters thats only $8. You would pay that much for octane booster anyway.

[MTL_GTS-t]

I usually run Petro Can 94, since that's the only 94 available in Montreal. Lately the car has been backfiring when I let off the throttle, not real loud, but small pops. Tuesday I was off the island, and the car was dead empty, so I filled up with Shell 91. I couldn't find a Petro Can and even if I could, they're kind of rare off island that sell 94.
The car seems to run more consistently with 91, still pulls strong across the rev range, and it has completely stopped the backfiring. I'm glad I couldn't find a Petro Can.
I remember reading someone's post on here about the negative effects of Petro Canada's gas, with all it's additives and cleaners and whatnot. How accurate is that?

Just a note, if you're up in Mont Tremblant, there's a Crevier just off the track in the "old" village that sells 94. I asked the owner, and he said he gets it from Sunoco, and not from Petro Canada, which is odd, but great. I'm up there for the Ferrari Challenge this weekend, so I'm going to try a full tank to see how it compares.

[Stinky_1]

I have heard more horror stories from other gasolines than petro. But if you survey 1,000 people that all use petro gas, odds are good one or two of them will blame the gas for a problem with their vehicle.

I cant see how sulfer would have that instant of an effect on a fuel pump. It would have to be pretty potent stuff. And if it was "that" potent I would expect people to be getting holes in their gas tanks lONG before the fuel pumps all started dying.

Not to discredit the poster of the news. I am sure his fuel pump really did break, and that it happened when he has petro gas in the tank.

You can draw your own conclusions as to "why" it actually failed.

[BlackAura]

I'm new to this whole Skyline thing....still haven't written up my "zOMG!!!11 I finally got a Skyline OMGWTFBBQ" thread, but I've been reading a lot about this whole ethanaol addatives in fuel issue. Apparently newer cars are fine with it and have no problems, but older cars may have issues, because rubber fuel lines will start to degrade due to the ethanol content.

So what kind of fuel lines do skylines have? Haven't taken a good look at the engine yet (those lovely red covers keep distracting me ), but if Skylines do have rubber fuel lines, it's something that we should look into.

If it's something I'll have to worry about, maybe I'll drive out to Canmore weekly to put in Esso 92 octane...

I put in half a tank of mohawk E92 fuel (10% ethanol content) today, with the other half being standard 92 octane Esso fuel from Canmore, and the car seems to be running about the same. Are there any places in the city to get 92 octane regular gasoline? (no ethanol additives) If so I honestly think I'll just stick with that, and then I won't have to worry about it.

(GTR-guy told me when I was purchasing the car that she runs on 92 octane happily, and so far I've found that to be the case as well.)

I may also consider getting a chip like Joker's that will work with 91 octane, or even resetting the ECU to see if it will time itself to 91 octane without any problems (please let me know if you expect there to be issues, and I won't). But I have to drive the car on 92 for a while so I will know if there are any problems when I do switch over.

[RanDoMBanSHee]

with my 90 gts t i have the ecu chipped and it is set to run on 91.. but i also once and a while get a loud pop when i let off the gas.. mostly in second or highway driving... (is that a bad thing?) it also pops a little lighter when shifting from 1st to 2nd .. bad? .. i find when i add octane boost the only difference is i get worse milage and maybe a tiny unmessurable amount of more power but not really.. so i think the boost is useless unless you are planning to compete or get worse milage.. now that ive run a few tanks without it the popping has mellowed to next to none.. so i say just go for running your typical premium gas ... probly shell v power would be a safe bet..

[Stinky_1]

it still is on the rich side of yuor tune. Thats all. So it will pop when you give it heavy gas, let the turbo spool then let off the gas. The engine will add a certain amount of fuel for the air it thinks is coming in still, but really its just recircing or venting to the air if you have an AM BOV. So when you open the throttle plate a little bit again all that unburnt fuel heats up in your exhaust and pops.

its not going to hurt anything and is typical of a turbo charged car.